Mercedes V12 Bi-Turbo
09-09-2005, 05:08 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
car and driver also (or one of the performance magazines) tested the World Challenge Audi RS6 racecar with the cosworth engine making about 550hp. it ran in World Challenge trim, 3.5 seconds.
it weighs 3200lbs with driver. (hp to weight is about 6:1) anderson has a little advantage at 2900lbs with driver, but no 4X4 !!!!! (and 305s on all 4 corners)
so, the E600 to make 0-60 in close to the same time at a hp to weight of 9:1 is proving two things. either the car is making more hp than rated (likely) or the car doesnt weigh as much as it is listed at
550hp audi, 3200lbs 6:1
550hp 928 2900lbs 5.7:1
400hp kibort 928 2900lbs 7:1
490hp mercedes 4500lbs 9:1
futher investigation of the torque BS,is that even if you look at a flatter torque curve. the average Hp doesnt go up by all that much on a worst case example (ie maybe 10% better for the mercedes, bring its ratio to 8:1 instead, even if it could make 540hp) still leaving it welll behind the real proven race cars with measured hp and performance values.
thats why i take C and D with a grain of sand. proven by that article.
Mk
it weighs 3200lbs with driver. (hp to weight is about 6:1) anderson has a little advantage at 2900lbs with driver, but no 4X4 !!!!! (and 305s on all 4 corners)
so, the E600 to make 0-60 in close to the same time at a hp to weight of 9:1 is proving two things. either the car is making more hp than rated (likely) or the car doesnt weigh as much as it is listed at
550hp audi, 3200lbs 6:1
550hp 928 2900lbs 5.7:1
400hp kibort 928 2900lbs 7:1
490hp mercedes 4500lbs 9:1
futher investigation of the torque BS,is that even if you look at a flatter torque curve. the average Hp doesnt go up by all that much on a worst case example (ie maybe 10% better for the mercedes, bring its ratio to 8:1 instead, even if it could make 540hp) still leaving it welll behind the real proven race cars with measured hp and performance values.
thats why i take C and D with a grain of sand. proven by that article.
Mk
09-09-2005, 05:10 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Very interesting.
I had a short encounter the other day with an SL65 in my turbo. I was sitting back waiting for the local state trooper to exit the highway while this SLMB came up behind me. I had slowed as not to bring attention to myself as this guy starts creeping up my a$$ and then backing off. I pointed the cop out to the guy and he kept on doing it. I can't stand when people get pushy like that. As the trooper exited I guess the guy in the SL was inpatient and as the trooper exited he nearly hit me on his last burst. I looked up at him gave him a nasty look and waved
. I punched it at 3500 rpm in 3rd (the most deadly gear with boost already built) I could see him start to move as he tried to cut around me on the right and i just proceeded to leave him in the dust. I guess my 3100 pound car with full 450 ft pounds of torque was a bit more than he expected. My exit came up a mile or so up the road and braked down taking the turn fast. I had to sit at the stop sign as he pulled up alongside me to make a left and I can tell by the look on his face that he was not pleased but rather impressed by my car as he gave me a thumbs up. In all I must have pulled at least 15 car lengths on him with no hopes of him catching me. He turned left and I was amazed to see it was an SL65. I figured it was a 55 or 500. They may be fast on paper and off the line but apparently they have there slow points also. To me it was lacking the power were it was trully needed. I could care less from 0-60 but from 50 up is were you want it.
I had a short encounter the other day with an SL65 in my turbo. I was sitting back waiting for the local state trooper to exit the highway while this SLMB came up behind me. I had slowed as not to bring attention to myself as this guy starts creeping up my a$$ and then backing off. I pointed the cop out to the guy and he kept on doing it. I can't stand when people get pushy like that. As the trooper exited I guess the guy in the SL was inpatient and as the trooper exited he nearly hit me on his last burst. I looked up at him gave him a nasty look and waved
. I punched it at 3500 rpm in 3rd (the most deadly gear with boost already built) I could see him start to move as he tried to cut around me on the right and i just proceeded to leave him in the dust. I guess my 3100 pound car with full 450 ft pounds of torque was a bit more than he expected. My exit came up a mile or so up the road and braked down taking the turn fast. I had to sit at the stop sign as he pulled up alongside me to make a left and I can tell by the look on his face that he was not pleased but rather impressed by my car as he gave me a thumbs up. In all I must have pulled at least 15 car lengths on him with no hopes of him catching me. He turned left and I was amazed to see it was an SL65. I figured it was a 55 or 500. They may be fast on paper and off the line but apparently they have there slow points also. To me it was lacking the power were it was trully needed. I could care less from 0-60 but from 50 up is were you want it.
09-09-2005, 05:34 PM
#19
It was probably a Sl 500 rebadged as an SL65. I don't think you would have had a chance against a real SL 65. That is, uless you can run a mid 11 second 1/4 mile at over 120 mph. Did you watch the video's? Do you really think you can beat that car? Weight is a big factor at the starting line and you can see that is not a real issue with the SL 65. Once the SL 65 is off the line it is even more dangerous and builds speed like a bullet: Over 600 hp and 735 lb-ft of tq. Maybe your 911 3.6 has a bit more power than you think?
15 car lengths at hwy speeds over a car with over 600 hp. You must be pushing close to 800 hp in your 3.6L or he wasn't trying?
In all I must have pulled at least 15 car lengths on him with no hopes of him catching me.
09-09-2005, 05:35 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Andrew,
Re the pic, that could be it. The pic makes the car look like a mid size merc. This one was a big *****. And it had very prominant V12 Bi-Turbo badging in chrome in front of the driver side door, behind the wheel well. For a big car, it really jumped!
Re the pic, that could be it. The pic makes the car look like a mid size merc. This one was a big *****. And it had very prominant V12 Bi-Turbo badging in chrome in front of the driver side door, behind the wheel well. For a big car, it really jumped!
09-09-2005, 05:51 PM
#21
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Hey Cameron
FYI..I watch the 2dr copue Biturbo V-12 run 12.4in the quater a few weeks ago...
Im also in FLL right now, at the Doubletree on SunriseBlvd. Just woke up actually LOL...leave in a couple of hours
Ill be back next Friday morning. I DO want a ride in your car. I think i still have your number.
FYI..I watch the 2dr copue Biturbo V-12 run 12.4in the quater a few weeks ago...
Im also in FLL right now, at the Doubletree on SunriseBlvd. Just woke up actually LOL...leave in a couple of hours
Ill be back next Friday morning. I DO want a ride in your car. I think i still have your number.
09-09-2005, 05:55 PM
#22
Here is an stock E55 AMG, in OZ, racing against a few 911 turbos on a track. Out of the Mercedes' element but it still hunts them down pretty quickly:
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=E...reek-Australia
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=E...reek-Australia
09-09-2005, 06:08 PM
#24
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
You bet. Not your fault. Its been a while since ive flown a trip like this and they are tough the body clock...i need to catch up on a bunch of sleep anyway. How far are you away from the Galleria? We stay right next door
Plan next week about this time?
Perhaps Normy is reading as well, hes in this neck of the woods?
Plan next week about this time?
Perhaps Normy is reading as well, hes in this neck of the woods?
09-09-2005, 06:38 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Jim Nowak
It was probably a Sl 500 rebadged as an SL65. I don't think you would have had a chance against a real SL 65. That is, uless you can run a mid 11 second 1/4 mile at over 120 mph. Did you watch the video's? Do you really think you can beat that car? Weight is a big factor at the starting line and you can see that is not a real issue with the SL 65. Once the SL 65 is off the line it is even more dangerous and builds speed like a bullet: Over 600 hp and 735 lb-ft of tq. Maybe your 911 3.6 has a bit more power than you think?
15 car lengths at hwy speeds over a car with over 600 hp. You must be pushing close to 800 hp in your 3.6L or he wasn't trying?
15 car lengths at hwy speeds over a car with over 600 hp. You must be pushing close to 800 hp in your 3.6L or he wasn't trying?
Maybe so. Around here many love the flash and a badge change is not uncommon. Although it did have a V12 kompressor or something like that badge on its side with the different body work also. I would say if it was re badged it was an SL 55 rebadged as an SL 65
I can say that I have out accelerated from 50-60 on up to (?mph) Dodge Vipers, modified Z06 vettes, Ferrari Challenge Stradeles and stock 996TT's. This was my first with a MB SL. I did hit it just right and the car actually jumped forward like I never felt it before. All the torque hit at once and just launched me forward. I may have cought him off guard and by the time he realized I was already way ahead. I don't know how their systems work or if lag is an issue I am sure the 1300 pounds against him doesn't hurt either or what gear he was in. I am sure it can dust me off the line as my car is relatively slow from 0-60 only 4.5 seconds although I have recorded 10.1 seconds from 0-100 on the Gtech with a bad 0-20 launch of 1.8 seconds with serious tire slippage on an upward grade. The road turned and I have yet to find one that I can run a good 1/4 on so I have no idea what my quarter times are but I am sure they are in the mid 11's. The car now grips better with the M PS2's vs the old S02's that i could never get to lock up. The last time I had the car on the dyno it was running a bad vacuum leak in the fuel injection and the car has been noticeably faster since it was fixed. It was also a muggy high 80 low 90 degree day without cooling fans on the IC showing 430 BHP using 93 octane fuel. I have been trying to get it back on the dyno for months but it looks like it will be a few more months before I get another chance. I am sure it is putting out more power than before but have no idea how much.
09-09-2005, 06:48 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
there are so many guys, including the "torque ies" that dont understand the gearing and HP factors. If i was in a car like yours, id be in a lower gear starting out at 5000rpm and would be putting 20-25% more torque to the wheels. I would walk away from you in that gear you think is your"strongest" gear. the strongest gear is 1st, the second strongest gear is 2nd and so on. you want to win a race or get a good 60 to 100mph time, put the car as close to max Hp and keep it there. usually means 4500 to 6500rpm range.
most ALL guys you see on the street , street racing will drop a gear to race. usually they should drop 2 gears. your engine doesnt know where "you need it" you have to know this, and choose the right gear. hp will determine the rates of acceleration over a speed range. if two cars have the same flywheel hp, and shape of curve, and are geared the same, and have the same weight, they will accelerate the same . there can subtle differences in the factors except for weight. two cars with similar HP ratings will generally accelerate the same over a speed range, as long as their gear spacing is close to the same. there are trade offs in gearing, but thats a long long story.
Mk
most ALL guys you see on the street , street racing will drop a gear to race. usually they should drop 2 gears. your engine doesnt know where "you need it" you have to know this, and choose the right gear. hp will determine the rates of acceleration over a speed range. if two cars have the same flywheel hp, and shape of curve, and are geared the same, and have the same weight, they will accelerate the same . there can subtle differences in the factors except for weight. two cars with similar HP ratings will generally accelerate the same over a speed range, as long as their gear spacing is close to the same. there are trade offs in gearing, but thats a long long story.
Mk
Originally Posted by cobalt
Very interesting.
I had a short encounter the other day with an SL65 in my turbo. I was sitting back waiting for the local state trooper to exit the highway while this SLMB came up behind me. I had slowed as not to bring attention to myself as this guy starts creeping up my a$$ and then backing off. I pointed the cop out to the guy and he kept on doing it. I can't stand when people get pushy like that. As the trooper exited I guess the guy in the SL was inpatient and as the trooper exited he nearly hit me on his last burst. I looked up at him gave him a nasty look and waved. I punched it at 3500 rpm in 3rd (the most deadly gear with boost already built) I could see him start to move as he tried to cut around me on the right and i just proceeded to leave him in the dust. I guess my 3100 pound car with full 450 ft pounds of torque was a bit more than he expected. My exit came up a mile or so up the road and braked down taking the turn fast. I had to sit at the stop sign as he pulled up alongside me to make a left and I can tell by the look on his face that he was not pleased but rather impressed by my car as he gave me a thumbs up. In all I must have pulled at least 15 car lengths on him with no hopes of him catching me. He turned left and I was amazed to see it was an SL65. I figured it was a 55 or 500. They may be fast on paper and off the line but apparently they have there slow points also. To me it was lacking the power were it was trully needed. I could care less from 0-60 but from 50 up is were you want it.
I had a short encounter the other day with an SL65 in my turbo. I was sitting back waiting for the local state trooper to exit the highway while this SLMB came up behind me. I had slowed as not to bring attention to myself as this guy starts creeping up my a$$ and then backing off. I pointed the cop out to the guy and he kept on doing it. I can't stand when people get pushy like that. As the trooper exited I guess the guy in the SL was inpatient and as the trooper exited he nearly hit me on his last burst. I looked up at him gave him a nasty look and waved
. I punched it at 3500 rpm in 3rd (the most deadly gear with boost already built) I could see him start to move as he tried to cut around me on the right and i just proceeded to leave him in the dust. I guess my 3100 pound car with full 450 ft pounds of torque was a bit more than he expected. My exit came up a mile or so up the road and braked down taking the turn fast. I had to sit at the stop sign as he pulled up alongside me to make a left and I can tell by the look on his face that he was not pleased but rather impressed by my car as he gave me a thumbs up. In all I must have pulled at least 15 car lengths on him with no hopes of him catching me. He turned left and I was amazed to see it was an SL65. I figured it was a 55 or 500. They may be fast on paper and off the line but apparently they have there slow points also. To me it was lacking the power were it was trully needed. I could care less from 0-60 but from 50 up is were you want it.
09-09-2005, 06:53 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
a bunch of hacks with a lot of car at the track. I really like the shuffle steering. Let me just say with confidence, the 60th place Miata, still street legal, would beat this guy at laguna !
MK
MK
Originally Posted by Jim Nowak
Here is an stock E55 AMG, in OZ, racing against a few 911 turbos on a track. Out of the Mercedes' element but it still hunts them down pretty quickly:
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=E...reek-Australia
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=E...reek-Australia
09-09-2005, 06:57 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
that was cool!! man, it is fast out of the hole. 11.4 is pretty stout!!
wonder if it has traction control
did you see, it also had drag slicks. pretty important in that game. wonder if the vet or the mustang had 'em
mk
wonder if it has traction control
did you see, it also had drag slicks. pretty important in that game. wonder if the vet or the mustang had 'em
mk
Originally Posted by Jim Nowak
You don't even want to try the SL65 in a race:
http://www.mercedescarnage.com/Mercedes_Carnage_4.wmv
http://www.mercedescarnage.com/Mercedes_Carnage_4.wmv
09-09-2005, 07:00 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by mark kibort
there are so many guys, including the "torque ies" that dont understand the gearing and HP factors. If i was in a car like yours, id be in a lower gear starting out at 5000rpm and would be putting 20-25% more torque to the wheels. I would walk away from you in that gear you think is your"strongest" gear. the strongest gear is 1st, the second strongest gear is 2nd and so on. you want to win a race or get a good 60 to 100mph time, put the car as close to max Hp and keep it there. usually means 4500 to 6500rpm range.
most ALL guys you see on the street , street racing will drop a gear to race. usually they should drop 2 gears. your engine doesnt know where "you need it" you have to know this, and choose the right gear. hp will determine the rates of acceleration over a speed range. if two cars have the same flywheel hp, and shape of curve, and are geared the same, and have the same weight, they will accelerate the same . there can subtle differences in the factors except for weight. two cars with similar HP ratings will generally accelerate the same over a speed range, as long as their gear spacing is close to the same. there are trade offs in gearing, but thats a long long story.
Mk
most ALL guys you see on the street , street racing will drop a gear to race. usually they should drop 2 gears. your engine doesnt know where "you need it" you have to know this, and choose the right gear. hp will determine the rates of acceleration over a speed range. if two cars have the same flywheel hp, and shape of curve, and are geared the same, and have the same weight, they will accelerate the same . there can subtle differences in the factors except for weight. two cars with similar HP ratings will generally accelerate the same over a speed range, as long as their gear spacing is close to the same. there are trade offs in gearing, but thats a long long story.
Mk
09-09-2005, 07:03 PM
#30
Originally Posted by cobalt
I am assuming the MB was in the wrong gear if anything.
The SL would be a 5 or 6spd auto. No wrong gears. Just mash pedal, Tarzan.