JFScheck

Oh, and I can't leave this bait alone either but I too am sure I will regreat taking a bite latter on....

I wanted a daily driver that was fun, fast and could tow my trailer yet also have full off road capability for when I move to Steamboat Springs in a few years.

The SUV I was looking for also had to be fun to drive aggressively through mountain passes and even the local back roads here in the DC area...

I like the look, the handling, the power, etc. of the Cayenne. It's the SUV I have been dreaming of for years, and YES, it took PORSCHE to create it!

I can also credit the Cayenne for bringing me back to Porsche after a long hiatus away as I get ready for the newly re-designed Boxster (or a better engine’d 2005 model)...

Oh, but wait… Is the Boxster also not a Porsche or is this vehicle too not worthy of the Porsche lineage? Is the 911 family of vehicles the only vehicle worthy of the Porsche emblem?

LMFAO

That’s what so great about the members of this forum, we all have our opinions even when used “sarcastically”…

Wet1

Sorry, guys... I have never seen this topic covered before, although I've never looked for it either.

I agree Porsche would be in a world of crap if this SUV fails. I think my point is/was that I feel that it might be a hard lesson learned that could've been easily prevented by studying their own history. Maybe I'm wrong... I hope so for their sake.

I wont argue the issue any further, I can see it's like pissing in the wind and I'm not going to get anywhere by continuing. I was just voicing my opinion. Sounds like you guys have had some heated debates about this before (or you're Cayenne owners) since so many of you are very sensitive about the subject. Sorry.

sasilverbullet

Now what would have been cool was if 1st, 2nd and 3rd place at the last Dakar rally were Cayenne's!!!!

JFScheck

NO, please do continue on... Any discussion is healthy and we all have our opinions!

Without opinions, this world would be one hell of a boring place!
Cheers Mate!

DonW-Cape Cod

Hey Wet1... If you agree that Porsche AG had to produce something other than the 996/986 in order to survive, and you agree that the Cayenne was not the right one (check the sales figures), then what type of vehicle would you have PAG produce that would result in similar sales quantities and still be a Porsche.

The other 2 options were:
1. Go bankrupt
2. Sell the company to (fill in a name)

It's easy to critique, but what would your solution have been? (smiling 'cause it's lighthearted)

OldGuy

Wet1 wrote
"I agree Porsche has to make $$$ (which they've done up to this point w/o a SUV), but I just don't agree with them producing SUV's (does Ferarri or Lambo???) when this is not their field. IMO, that's like Jeep or Hummer (when they were private companies) producing endurance road racers!!! And I sure as hell don't agree with Porsche using a VW clone as their SUV!"

You dont seem to know much about Porsche history. Not their field??
Porsche has been making 4WD cars for a long time, before SUV's were
even called SUV's They were racing in Paris-Dakar rallies before there
was a Toyota 4Runner or a GMC tahoe or an H2. There were even
rally 959's for Gods sake. I dont mind you not liking the Cayenne but
dont say its not in Porsches field. On the contrary its a natural extension
of what Porsche has learned over the last half century.

JBH

You know...we could cover some new ground if we started moving the conversation toward: What Should Porsche Build Next.

4-Dr Luxary Sedan?
Family Wagon?
Motorcycle?
Hybrid?
Fuel Cell Vehicle?

Don't laugh at the last two...rising gas prices have people once again thinking about more efficient transportation. Even though it seems unlikely now, its not that hard to imagine world pressure reaching a point where driving a high consumption vehicle would be the equivalent of wearing a mink coat.

My own opinion is that Porsche should start putting out Club Sport (street legal) and Club Race (PCA and POC legal) versions of its vehicles. These are lighter weight vehicles with upgraded brakes, suspensions, and perhaps engine that can be used for Driver Ed (Club Sport) and Club Racing events

87turbo911

Actually, I think Lamborghini DID make an SUV in the late-80s to early-90s. They made the "LM002" which was a ridiculously fast (relative to SUVs) SUV...and sold for $200K.

http://www.lamborghiniregistry.com/LM002/

Joe Anstett

Actually VW is even more confused. Witness the $100k W12 Phaeton. And they're supposed to get a VW version of the V10 Lamborghini Gallardo.

???

38D

Porsche sold over 125,000 914s in just 7 years.

Joe Anstett

Challenge gleefully accepted.

- a bare bones stripper sports car under $30k (Miata by Porsche)
- a luxury V8 GT under $50k (compete with Infiniti G35)
- a sedan but ONLY if it is an M3 fighter

And how about a hybrid awd car (like the new Mitsubishi Eclipse proto). Electric motors make all their torque down low, imagine that on an AWD P-car.

beemaze

The Cayenne is not a VW Toureg. TOTALLY different driving experience. They share the same frame, but after that, it's all Porsche.

Also, there is nothing uncommon about auto manufacturers sharing technology.

e.g. Porsche 928 GTS used Mercedes S-class transmission.

e.g. Porsche built the 1st generation Mercedes Benz E500/500E.

Wet1

Since everyone seems to be so focused on the bulls-eye on my head for my views, I'll continue on. Hell, someone has to be the village idiot!


Sasilverbullet-
I agree, if Porsche is going to play with SUV's they should have made a STRONG showing in the Dakar, similar to their efforts with the 959. But again, they have dropped the ball IMO by not utilizing their motorsports heritage.



JFScheck-
It's quite obvious my opinion is NOT the popular one! I've never been one to be known for "group think". Hell, I have a couple of minutes so I'm going to have a beer and entertain the village for a while.



DonW-
What direction do I think they should be headed in? You had to ask!
Seriously, the SUV market has been the hottest segment for the past 10 years. It is and was a natural decision to take their chunk of the market share. I don't agree with the decision, but I certainly agree that it made great financial sense to capitalize on the fad. I'm not sure how long it will last. Porsche made similar moves to capture market share and deversify in the past and most efforts failed longterm. I'm a firm beleiver in studing history and learning from past mistakes. I hope they haven't made a longterm mistake. If I were to have built an offroad platform for Porsche I would have built the thing like a tank and give it super tough hard looks. Everyone whats that offroad bad-boy look of the Hummers. Add Porsche engineering and that thing would be worthy of the crest! Not make something that looks just like a Hyundi Santa Fe!
I also frowned when the 996 and Boxster were intoduced. To this day I think they've made these models too much of a production line product while at the same time they have lost the fire and idententy of them. I think they need to differenciate the two models much more. The Boxster was a great idea and lost a little in execution when it came to the market. I think they need to go back to the original Spider or Sportster and bring back those attributes. Make the car a little smaller, lower, LIGHTER, and most of all... simple (get rid of the fluff). IMO this car would sell.
The 996 IMO was way off the mark. It was way to closely tided to the Boxster. The car had and has become to plain and flat... not to mention fat. IMO the most classic and recognisable lines Porsche ever made belonged to the 930. Even today that car stands out in a crowd with it's beautiful lines. This is the car people think of when they think sports car or more speciffically "Porsche". The flat-sided, smoothed-over 996 looks more like a Toyota IMO, not a 911. I would bring back the curvy lines of the turbo Porsches of yesterday, not copy it but work those classic lines back in. The interior is way to plastic in apearance, yet way to luxurious in execution(eg: nav systems and such). Bring back the simple yet functional interiors. None of the bells and whistles, but make them optional. Make the sound-deadening an option. Get back to a pure sports car and also offer and club racing stripped down cars as well. The movement to water cooling was nessicary and I agree with the move. I guess what I'm saying is make it the sexy sports car it use to be, but offer all the options at an addional cost so you don't lose custumers. After the car went on a diet it would gain some of the performance it lacks in todays highly competitive field.

The next car I would introduce is a sport luxurery sedan. Something along the idea of the BMW 3 or 5 series. And of them produce a very hot "M" killer. Use the 8 cyl. engines they've developed. Picture a sedan with nice large flared fenders, simple yet tasteful leather interior, with the 450hp tt 8 cyl engine and the M6 or Tip trans. Awesome! This is a huge market they can do very well in, yet build on their performance heritage.

Lastly the top of the line supercar needs to go back to the gym and pump it up a little. Make it F1 or Enzo killer and don't let it hit the street until it's ready to be an instant legend.
Porsche... contact me at fastcat@sbcglobal.net for a high level job.


Oldguy-
Actually I am very firmalur with Porsche's history... but thanks for your concern.


JBH-
I very strongly agree with your club-sport comment... these are the cars everyone wants and what Porsche is known for. Produce them and the public will buy them.


87turbo911-
You are correct, Lambo did produce one. And yes I did realize it when I wrote the eairler comment. But notice my wording... "does Ferarri or Lambo???" DOES is srtessed, they got out of that market very quickly for a reason.


Joe-
I think VW is smart to capitalize off the Porsche/VW SUV. They have been growing their upper end market for the last several years (and doing a good job of it). It makes sense for them to offer a high end model for reconition and who doesn't know this SUV is the same thing Porsche is offering for much more $??? VW gains by being attached to Porsche. I don't think it works the other way around.


Okay, I've now had a couple of beers, hope I've entertained you all. Please continue the bashing now...

BTW, sorry about the typo's and spelling.

Wet1

Yeah and the Camaro and WS6 TA offer a TOTALLY different driving experience.

Just my opinion.

Wet1

Looks like we share some similar ideas on direction.