Funny you say that since I use garmin smartwatch and bike computer for sports (same account garmin account). It is always/still possible to download .gpx or .fit files of the activities on the garmin connect website.

It seems that they do not have any integration of the motorsport "catalyst" activities into garmin connect. I mean, an integration would be awesome where you can analyse your laptimes on the garmin connect website and then also download the relevant files idk

 

For what it's worth, the Catalyst seems to be heading in a different direction than other Garmin Sports devices. Connect is where everything used to be collected, even the Catalyst data when you uploaded the FIT files. Now it seems Garmin is using Google Cloud for the Catalyst program. Which kind of makes losing the FIT files even more frustrating because it would be so simple to just pull your data you out of the Google Cloud once it's been synced.

I don't understand the limitation. Forcing drivers to use a touch screen app to scratch the surface of such a wealth of data is beyond me. I get that 95% of drivers will be happy with that but needlessly tying the hands of the other 5% seems odd.

 

FYI, I just sent the following to the Catalyst support email:Hello all,

First of all, thank you for the wonderful work you’ve put into the Catalyst. I think it’s a terrific marriage of technology and expertise.

I first acquired the Catalyst in October 2022 and quickly discovered the FIT files included on the device. As a longtime technology buff I spent a lot of time studying and implementing the FIT SDK on which Garmin spent so much effort developing and making available to developers. With Garmin’s SDK I was able to come up with all kinds of analyses that demonstrably improved my driving. I was so delighted with the availability of this data I began sharing my work with other drivers and we developed a small but intense working group of drivers that could really benefit from the Catalyst. I think my work, which is in no way unique or special, really helps close the gap between the Catalyst and other racing devices.

I am dumbfounded at Garmin’s decision to restrict access to the FIT data beginning with update 5.30. With all of Garmin’s work on the FIT SDK it seems impossible that removing this capability helps anyone. I can understand that perhaps some drivers just let their FIT files overwhelm their storage cards and Garmin decided to just stop creating them. But it seems the same thing happens with the rest of the session data so there must be something in the Catalyst that deletes old sessions as needed?

My request is that Garmin restore the creation of FIT files on the Catalyst, or at the very least make it a configuration setting for “advanced” users. Maybe in the user profile? Barring that, the ability to extract and send FIT files back out of the Catalyst app would be an alternative, albeit more clumsy. It looks like the data sits on Google’s Cloud so it must be pretty easy to access.

Perhaps update 5.31 can uncomment the code that stops FIT files from being created?
Thank you

 

Again, not sure why folks who want to dive in with more advanced analysis don’t just buy a very simple simple, inexpensive standalone (no car info, like the Catalyst) logger like the VBOX Sport, VBOX Performance Box or AIM Solo 2. It’s super easy to do with those three devices, all in the $450-$650 range. Not sure you can’t do that also with the Apex Pro, at $590.

You can put together the segment entry/apex/exit speed maps and compare super easy and in less time.

 

That was a good note you sent to Garmin, Larry. Hope they can help.

 

It depends what your priority is. For me (at least) it was having a lap delta while driving as well as simple video recording functionality both of which the Garmin does really well in my opinion. If it can do that why not try and get Garmin to also allow for file exports as well especially if we already have the device?

 

Partially because, and this is my opinion only, the file export was never in the brief for this device.

It was designed as a closed ecosystem, for folks who didn’t need or want to take a laptop to the track, a hole that it has filled for tens of thousands of HPDE, track day and racing drivers worldwide for almost three years now. Many features have been added, most of which were asked for by the extensive user base.

I learned a long time ago that NO system does everything people want. As the OP titled this thread, what he was doing was a hack, a workaround outside the normal operation or intention of the device. It also requires a laptop, navigation, export and formatting skills, plus time, which is in short supply at the track.

Certainly easy to ask for feature adds, that’s worked for many great enhancements for this device.

The phone apps for Apex Pro allow for color coded gain/loss AND integration of phone video, plus OBDII for throttle. Plus, the analysis can be done on an iOS or Android device, but not a laptop.

The new VBOX HD Lite will be an all in one video and data package with a car connection for data and phone app for a color coded gain/loss display for not much more than a Solo 2 DL alone. Should be here in June. Plus, a simple file export is a one button feature in the Windows and perhaps the MacOS (as well
as iOS) software.

I sold my hardware business some time ago, but use most of these tools in private coaching a few times a week. This past week, I used a Catalyst, a VBOX HD2 and an AiM Solo 2/SmartyCam 3 Sport combination in one car, a VBOX HD2 and a MoTeC C185 in another. Worked great for zeroing in on things defining the next session goals between sessions.

Don't forget that for some hardware like rhe AiM/VBOX/MoTeC and even Apex Pro, you can export different system information and compare the same common GPS and regular channels in the same window with an app from TrackAttack.io A number of pro coaches use this all the time. Works great.

Ask away, but I think Garmin’s commitment to the development of this device for a huge majority of their users is going well and will only get better.

 

All great points Coach.

I'm actually a pretty big fan of Garmin. As a professional mariner I've used their marine products for years, which have great real-time touch screen functionality. Perfect for navigating a new harbor at night in a storm. And they have a pretty cool phone app. But Garmin also realized that their product needed greater functionality when more time was available to analyze a route or plan a journey. Real analysis just doesn't take place on a phone. So their marine products make it really easy to export, import and analyze data on a PC or Mac. And we're talking about a lot more data than driving.

The most perplexing part of this whole conversation is that we're not asking for some new feature that will require tons of business analysis, programming, testing, etc. We just want a removed feature returned. From my perspective companies and customers working together yields the best result. And sometimes fringe customers can be really beneficial when it comes to helping push everything further. Further than AiM/VBOX/MoTeC and even Apex Pro. The Catalyst is capable of doing just this.

 

Agree with your post, except for the last two sentences. Apples and oranges...

The power of today's systems to collect information and the nearly unlimited ways to display that information are incredible.

The Catalyst does something none of the others do now, which is to crunch and distill the most important information into an action plan, both while on the fly and after a completed session. THAT is it's greatest value for most users.

 

The configurable workbooks in MoTeC i2 Pro and the configurable Profiles in AiM Race Studio are both capable of making track specific reports that, without any export, conversion or work, instantly display EXACTLY the valuable reporting you worked out so well with the information in the .FIT files. Plus, it's even more configurable in those software suites.

But, I understand completely your frustration at not being able to use your existing hardware to do that now. I don't speak for Garmin but I can say that the team and team leader certainly consider any suggestions they get from users that might enhance the experience.

 

Thanks Matt, I appreciate the kinds words and offer. Right now I'm trying to figure out exactly what it will take to replace the Catalyst. As with anything worthwhile it's a bit complicated, i.e. main device, camera, wires, mounts, software, licenses, etc.

It seems that the AiM option will need to include:

• AiM Solo2 w/mounts and wires
• SmartyCam 3 w/mounts and wires
• RaceStudio 3 (separate license?)

Does this cover everything? I see the Aim Solo2 DL will add data from the ECU. Do I need a separate OBD device? Is it bluetooth or hardwired? Right now I have a Kiwi OBD2 bluetooth device. Or, is everything covered by the AiM "CAN+K-Line+ power cable with OBDII connector"?

I'm headed to the NorthEast for the summer and my next track event will be May 26. I'll have 10 track days over the summer including Watkins Glen and plan to run the Catalyst and Aim side by side. By September I will be able to share a nice review for other drivers that are interested in driving analytics.

Finally, as I write this I'm humbled by the help offered by you and other professional coaches like Peter, who has also offered to help me "upgrade" my systems. I'm keenly aware that none of this technology will ever replace the experience and value delivered by a real coach and look forward to a time where I can spend time in the car with one of you.

Cheers.

 

Helping people out is what I do. Long before I was in the business of motorsports, I was just a participant. This stuff is supposed to be fun and if we aren't having fun, we are doing it wrong. I remember what I always wished people and businesses would do when I started out and I try to do those things now.

For the AiM equipment, the Solo 2 DL and SmartyCam 3 is going to come with the cables you need. Then you would just need mounts for the camera and S2DL. That depends a little on your car and setup. If you have cage and or roll bar, then a rollbar mount for the camera and a suction or cage mount for the S2DL works great. If it's a pure street car, the Track Day kit that holds the camera, S2DL, and suctions to the windshield is a great option. The S2DL can come with an RPM cable, OBDII plug, or hardwire for CAN. That depends on your car. There is no license for AiM Race Studio 3 software. It has always been free.

I don't see why you couldn't borrow a system for May 26th if you would like to do that. I'm at Lime Rock that weekend, but I could get a system out to you next week to borrow. Just let me know.

 

If you do instruction and are looking for a kit that mounts and dismounts easily, the Track Day Kit from AiM is best.

Get the Solo 2 DL with power/CAN cable and connect it to your fuse box area. I can send an illustrated PDF on how to do this. Some vendors offer a pre-made cable to be plug and play for your car. Then, get an OBDII cable for portable use. Switch back and forth between the configuration for your car and a generic OBDII/CAN if needed.

The study you might want to focus on right now is how to arrange data in the Race Studio Analysis pages to perform automatically the analysis you want to see.

I would reach out to Ray Phillips, at Precision Driving Analytics, to talk about easy ways he has pioneered and used to display the same kind of analysis you have found so useful from the Catalyst. A good primer is here, but much more is available.
Lastly, I would urge you not to discard the Catalyst, but instead retain it as an additional system to augment and enhance your progress. Many, MANY people use more than one system. If you did that, you could start with the Solo 2 DL only and a suction cup mount to begin your AiM journey.

 

Thanks Matt and Peter. I've just spent a few days "enjoying" my annual trek north on I-95 and am now in Maine for the summer.

It seems like the Track Day kit from AiM is the right approach. I don't instruct but it is important to me to be able to get all the gear and wires in and out of the car easily. Cost is roughly $2k? Do either of you guys sell this so that I can say thank you in a more meaningful way than just words?

My final step is to analyze data for myself using Race Studio 3 to make sure I'm not going to run into another brick wall like I did with the Catalyst. I've downloaded Matt's sample data set at WGI from an AiM webinar and am working with that.

 

Yep, that Track Kit is the way to go for simple in and out. You've got mail.

Where are you in Maine? Perhaps I'll see you when I get up end of June, beginning of July. I'm an hour north of Portland, between Bath and Boothbay Harbor, on an island off of Georgetown.