AiM iPhone App?
12-15-2019, 08:17 PM
#61
Instructor
In Matt’s defense here, there may be no dealer more connected into AiM than him, so if Italy tells him something and says it’s ok to repeat it, I can’t see why he should take the blame for that. All he stated in those quoted comments is what AiM publicly posted, pointing out specifically about him not promising a date.
To be sure, AiM is frustrating. They should not announce any new products until at least they are in the final testing stages. And CERTAINLY not market it as “coming soon”!! But that’s not the Italian way....hype means everything. That said, as with any manufacturing or development company, unforeseen setbacks (like developers leaving)can cause major delays and disruption in the plan. I’m not excusing them, but I’ve worked for enough technology companies to not even be phased by it anymore. Heck, a simple update to the Bank of America Mobile app takes 6 months to release.
Because of this background, when any company says they’re delivering a new product, my stance to my customer base is “XYZ is working on this new gadget, looks cool, and they say this is a targeted release date, but I’ll believe it when it’s actually in my hands”... case in point: I was told months ago that Roux would have 8860-2018 helmets available to ship in Dec....now I’m being told July...I’ll believe it when I have one.
Again, not excusing AiM in any way, but I think venting frustration on a dealer who is just sharing what the company releases - while also saying he makes no promises to the validity of it - is a bit harsh.
To be sure, AiM is frustrating. They should not announce any new products until at least they are in the final testing stages. And CERTAINLY not market it as “coming soon”!! But that’s not the Italian way....hype means everything. That said, as with any manufacturing or development company, unforeseen setbacks (like developers leaving)can cause major delays and disruption in the plan. I’m not excusing them, but I’ve worked for enough technology companies to not even be phased by it anymore. Heck, a simple update to the Bank of America Mobile app takes 6 months to release.
Because of this background, when any company says they’re delivering a new product, my stance to my customer base is “XYZ is working on this new gadget, looks cool, and they say this is a targeted release date, but I’ll believe it when it’s actually in my hands”... case in point: I was told months ago that Roux would have 8860-2018 helmets available to ship in Dec....now I’m being told July...I’ll believe it when I have one.
Again, not excusing AiM in any way, but I think venting frustration on a dealer who is just sharing what the company releases - while also saying he makes no promises to the validity of it - is a bit harsh.
gtready, ease up, will you? You sound more like a prosecuting attorney rather than someone truly interested in moving forward.
Even though we are two of the most visible and long-standing auto line dealers for AiM, Matt and I frequently spar, often because of the difference between my lengthy, pragmatic experience with a broad range of product and feature releases from Italy, England, Australia and the US and his unabashed enthusiasm and loyalty to the exclusive line of products to which he’s hitched his wagon.
We’re each coming at it from different points of view, but the fact that the map bitmap never appeared in the MXL2 display, RS3 Analysis has not been released or the iOS app hasn’t been forthcoming (after several personnel challenges on the developer side) is no reason to trash AiM or impugn Matt’s best efforts to try and stir enthusiasm based on his wishes and desire.
Bottom line is that you rapidly learn in this business that best hopes and product/feature release date forecasts simply cannot be relied upon. It’s important not to count on anything until you can see it, touch it, feel it and work it.
This is not an AIM only issue, this is across a broad spectrum of tech. MoTeC, VBOX, R-T, pretty much standard practice.
The trade show mania stokes this, with each manufacturer trying to give a glimpse of the future, often without near-term capability of supplying the actual product.
I appreciate what Matt’s trying to do, even if I don’t agree with the way he does it, but I think you (gtreddy) seem awfully quick to condemn.
We’ll get it when we get it. To make decisions on product purchases based on promises by a dealer, and even manufacturer packaging and sales boasts, is just not a good idea.
Even though we are two of the most visible and long-standing auto line dealers for AiM, Matt and I frequently spar, often because of the difference between my lengthy, pragmatic experience with a broad range of product and feature releases from Italy, England, Australia and the US and his unabashed enthusiasm and loyalty to the exclusive line of products to which he’s hitched his wagon.
We’re each coming at it from different points of view, but the fact that the map bitmap never appeared in the MXL2 display, RS3 Analysis has not been released or the iOS app hasn’t been forthcoming (after several personnel challenges on the developer side) is no reason to trash AiM or impugn Matt’s best efforts to try and stir enthusiasm based on his wishes and desire.
Bottom line is that you rapidly learn in this business that best hopes and product/feature release date forecasts simply cannot be relied upon. It’s important not to count on anything until you can see it, touch it, feel it and work it.
This is not an AIM only issue, this is across a broad spectrum of tech. MoTeC, VBOX, R-T, pretty much standard practice.
The trade show mania stokes this, with each manufacturer trying to give a glimpse of the future, often without near-term capability of supplying the actual product.
I appreciate what Matt’s trying to do, even if I don’t agree with the way he does it, but I think you (gtreddy) seem awfully quick to condemn.
We’ll get it when we get it. To make decisions on product purchases based on promises by a dealer, and even manufacturer packaging and sales boasts, is just not a good idea.
I appreciate the sentiment, don't appreciate the dig, but don't agree with your comments. I have imported items from around the world - Canada, Mexico, Great Britain, Turkey, India, South Korea, and China to name a few countries. We have been in the data game the same amount of time, just in different ways. This isn't a discussion to boast your supremacy across data, but to acknowledge an angry customer.
gtreddy - you deserve to be mad. You were sold something, expected it to come, were told it was coming, and didn't get it. I'd be pissed too. I can't help you with an app, but if you want to vent, sell your AiM stuff, or just chat AiM, data, Porsches, Racing, or anything else, call me. My cell is 603-674-3250. I'm about to get on the plane for my last leg home, so give me until about 12:30. I'll listen and do whatever I can.
gtreddy - you deserve to be mad. You were sold something, expected it to come, were told it was coming, and didn't get it. I'd be pissed too. I can't help you with an app, but if you want to vent, sell your AiM stuff, or just chat AiM, data, Porsches, Racing, or anything else, call me. My cell is 603-674-3250. I'm about to get on the plane for my last leg home, so give me until about 12:30. I'll listen and do whatever I can.
Look, I’m not condemning anyone. It’s an opinion based on facts at hand.
Do I think any less of Matt? Absolutely not. He’s been super helpful trying to resolve whatever he can, but it doesn’t change the fact certain statements just shouldn’t be made and negates one of the main arguments he made about having a knowledgeable dealer.
You can absolutely disagree with me and I completely understand and accept that. But I still stand by my word.
edit: My opinion of Matt has actually increased because I respect people that are able to own up and offer help when they can. Everyone is wrong from time to time, but good character is less common.
Last edited by gtreddy; 12-15-2019 at 10:03 PM.
12-15-2019, 08:56 PM
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It is a problem when end-user expectations, brought about by the manufacturers and some well-meaning dealers, are not met. Over and over again.
It's not just AiM, that was my only point.
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12-15-2019, 09:59 PM
#63
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Reading over this thread from the beginning, you're absolutely right. I apologize. You were not, and your frustration is shared.
It is a problem when end-user expectations, brought about by the manufacturers and some well-meaning dealers, are not met. Over and over again.
It's not just AiM, that was my only point.
It is a problem when end-user expectations, brought about by the manufacturers and some well-meaning dealers, are not met. Over and over again.
It's not just AiM, that was my only point.
I appreciate you taking the time to do that. I really do.
And your point is taken. Seems like an industry wide thing. It’s just hard to know what’s what, even if it’s not just AIM, based on all the information available. Dealer or no dealer.
Last edited by gtreddy; 12-15-2019 at 10:17 PM.
12-15-2019, 10:29 PM
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Since the beginning, I've tried to keep a tight rein on posts about things that have not shipped to this country. I agree with you about the iOS app. That was in print with the release of the Solo 2 line....
Hope this works out and it's worth waiting for.
12-15-2019, 11:20 PM
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12-16-2019, 09:42 PM
#66
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It is hard to know. Some of the guys in the US got caught out on this as well (they are the ones who told me about the app in December). I'm lucky that I get the info from many people, so many times it is good info, but this time it wasn't. Sort of like the weatherman!
My offer stands. Please feel free to reach out if there is anything I can do.
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Bottom line is that you rapidly learn in this business that best hopes and product/feature release date forecasts simply cannot be relied upon. It’s important not to count on anything until you can see it, touch it, feel it and work it.
This is not an AIM only issue, this is across a broad spectrum of tech. MoTeC, VBOX, R-T, pretty much standard practice.
The trade show mania stokes this, with each manufacturer trying to give a glimpse of the future, often without near-term capability of supplying the actual product.
[...]
We’ll get it when we get it. To make decisions on product purchases based on promises by a dealer, and even manufacturer packaging and sales boasts, is just not a good idea.
This is not an AIM only issue, this is across a broad spectrum of tech. MoTeC, VBOX, R-T, pretty much standard practice.
The trade show mania stokes this, with each manufacturer trying to give a glimpse of the future, often without near-term capability of supplying the actual product.
[...]
We’ll get it when we get it. To make decisions on product purchases based on promises by a dealer, and even manufacturer packaging and sales boasts, is just not a good idea.
It's just wishful thinking, until it's in hand.
Since the beginning, I've tried to keep a tight rein on posts about things that have not shipped to this country. I agree with you about the iOS app. That was in print with the release of the Solo 2 line....
Hope this works out and it's worth waiting for.
Since the beginning, I've tried to keep a tight rein on posts about things that have not shipped to this country. I agree with you about the iOS app. That was in print with the release of the Solo 2 line....
Hope this works out and it's worth waiting for.
This probably would have changed my decision making process for a lap timer. I probably would have bought a system that currently meets my 80% of my needs vs. thinking I can wait a few weeks and maybe get 90% of my needs met. Good information about what to expect when reading claims by manufacturers in this space.
Last edited by gtreddy; 12-16-2019 at 10:32 PM.
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12-16-2019, 11:18 PM
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I hope more people searching about these systems, the way I was, see these 3 posts since we’re not all in race/track data business.
This probably would have changed my decision making process for a lap timer. I probably would have bought a system that currently meets my 80% of my needs vs. thinking I can wait a few weeks and maybe get 90% of my needs met.
This probably would have changed my decision making process for a lap timer. I probably would have bought a system that currently meets my 80% of my needs vs. thinking I can wait a few weeks and maybe get 90% of my needs met.
No ONE system does everything most users would like it to do. It's one of the reasons why I carry at least half a dozen leading brands, and try to be facile with many more than that in my daily work.
It is a trade-off. Some more than others. Increase configurability and customization options, and you increase the learning curve substantially. Dumb it down and you may miss some of the display options for the data that really could be the "a-ha" moment for a driver self-coaching themselves.
In the end, I spend more time talking to people in the learning and purchase phase, because a well educated consumer makes a better choice for themselves, and they get more value out of the system they decide to get.
Lately, I've spent a lot of time sending out multiple manufacturer systems, because the interoperability of these between all the major brands (AiM and VBOX, VBOX and their official tie up with MoTeC, RaceVoice and Podium Connect with AiM, MoTeC and VBOX) is getting better all the time.
Is this an option for everyone? Of course not, but as I've said before, it's about ease of use. If it's easy to use, people will use it and get value out of it.
12-16-2019, 11:33 PM
#69
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I think more and more people are doing just that.
No ONE system does everything most users would like it to do. It's one of the reasons why I carry at least half a dozen leading brands, and try to be facile with many more than that in my daily work.
It is a trade-off. Some more than others. Increase configurability and customization options, and you increase the learning curve substantially. Dumb it down and you may miss some of the display options for the data that really could be the "a-ha" moment for a driver self-coaching themselves.
In the end, I spend more time talking to people in the learning and purchase phase, because a well educated consumer makes a better choice for themselves, and they get more value out of the system they decide to get.
Lately, I've spent a lot of time sending out multiple manufacturer systems, because the interoperability of these between all the major brands (AiM and VBOX, VBOX and their official tie up with MoTeC, RaceVoice and Podium Connect with AiM, MoTeC and VBOX) is getting better all the time.
Is this an option for everyone? Of course not, but as I've said before, it's about ease of use. If it's easy to use, people will use it and get value out of it.
No ONE system does everything most users would like it to do. It's one of the reasons why I carry at least half a dozen leading brands, and try to be facile with many more than that in my daily work.
It is a trade-off. Some more than others. Increase configurability and customization options, and you increase the learning curve substantially. Dumb it down and you may miss some of the display options for the data that really could be the "a-ha" moment for a driver self-coaching themselves.
In the end, I spend more time talking to people in the learning and purchase phase, because a well educated consumer makes a better choice for themselves, and they get more value out of the system they decide to get.
Lately, I've spent a lot of time sending out multiple manufacturer systems, because the interoperability of these between all the major brands (AiM and VBOX, VBOX and their official tie up with MoTeC, RaceVoice and Podium Connect with AiM, MoTeC and VBOX) is getting better all the time.
Is this an option for everyone? Of course not, but as I've said before, it's about ease of use. If it's easy to use, people will use it and get value out of it.
But I just wanted to point out my qualm, in this situation, is not with the understanding of knowing that no system will meet my needs 100% on the technical level and trying to mix and match.
It was the fact that people doing the research, that don’t know the industry, don’t know that it’s an industry that is, less than forthcoming, in following through on promises they make when marketing their products. And the consumers that have done their analysis on the technical requirements should not factor any promises of features into their value proposition.
When I did that analysis, a non-multi mix and match system made sense. AIM Solo2DL with Smarty Cam. But that analysis was flawed because of the lack of understanding what you stated about the lack of follow through for data systems in the industry. I should have assumed those promises didn’t exist.
12-16-2019, 11:47 PM
#70
Instructor
Also, please keep in mind that I’m the same guy that was trying to create this for everyone to use (for free) with the Solo 2 so there was something in the mean time. I know it’s not rocket science, but I am trying. Just couldn’t get any traction from aim.
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12-16-2019, 11:52 PM
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gtreddy, just curious...If you knew then what you know now, what other system might you have gone with? I ask because as we evaluate our offerings I’m curious what the users see as value or meeting that level of need to make them decide to purchase. Right now we carry AiM and Apex Pro. There are pros and cons to each, and each has its place in driver development. (The iOS app for Apex is pretty slick). We’re looking at maybe carrying a couple other products, but not sure yet.
As a related side note, Nadine and I were talking to a friend that does app development and we discussed another fundamental issue that AiM is probably experiencing which is causing some of the delays: they’re hardware is built to transfer information in a format and “language” to their computer based software, NOT to a mobile app. Information transfer to a mobile app is completely and totally different. Look at Apex Pro: it was built from the ground up to run on a mobile app platform, but even they found just to support both iOS and Android is too complicated, let alone the protocols to a computer based program. It actually may have become a much harder exercise than they anticipated...and my guess is that not only are they developing the app, but major firmware updates to all their product line. No easy task.
as I noted above, being in technology for a large part of my career I learned long ago that what marketing says is more optimistic than what sales says, which is more optimistic than what development says....which in the end is more optimistic than reality. No, that does not make it ok, and yes it’s frustrating, but unfortunately that IS the nature of the technology world....
edit: just read your post above, so obviously I’m kinda preaching to the choir here...
As a related side note, Nadine and I were talking to a friend that does app development and we discussed another fundamental issue that AiM is probably experiencing which is causing some of the delays: they’re hardware is built to transfer information in a format and “language” to their computer based software, NOT to a mobile app. Information transfer to a mobile app is completely and totally different. Look at Apex Pro: it was built from the ground up to run on a mobile app platform, but even they found just to support both iOS and Android is too complicated, let alone the protocols to a computer based program. It actually may have become a much harder exercise than they anticipated...and my guess is that not only are they developing the app, but major firmware updates to all their product line. No easy task.
as I noted above, being in technology for a large part of my career I learned long ago that what marketing says is more optimistic than what sales says, which is more optimistic than what development says....which in the end is more optimistic than reality. No, that does not make it ok, and yes it’s frustrating, but unfortunately that IS the nature of the technology world....
edit: just read your post above, so obviously I’m kinda preaching to the choir here...
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12-17-2019, 12:01 AM
#72
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gtreddy, just curious...If you knew then what you know now, what other system might you have gone with? I ask because as we evaluate our offerings I’m curious what the users see as value or meeting that level of need to make them decide to purchase. Right now we carry AiM and Apex Pro. There are pros and cons to each, and each has its place in driver development. (The iOS app for Apex is pretty slick). We’re looking at maybe carrying a couple other products, but not sure yet.
As a related side note, Nadine and I were talking to a friend that does app development and we discussed another fundamental issue that AiM is probably experiencing which is causing some of the delays: they’re hardware is built to transfer information in a format and “language” to their computer based software, NOT to a mobile app. Information transfer to a mobile app is completely and totally different. Look at Apex Pro: it was built from the ground up to run on a mobile app platform, but even they found just to support both iOS and Android is too complicated, let alone the protocols to a computer based program. It actually may have become a much harder exercise than they anticipated...and my guess is that not only are they developing the app, but major firmware updates to all their product line. No easy task.
as I noted above, being in technology for a large part of my career I learned long ago that what marketing says is more optimistic than what sales says, which is more optimistic than what development says....which in the end is more optimistic than reality. No, that does not make it ok, and yes it’s frustrating, but unfortunately that IS the nature of the technology world....
edit: just read your post above, so obviously I’m kinda preaching to the choir here...
As a related side note, Nadine and I were talking to a friend that does app development and we discussed another fundamental issue that AiM is probably experiencing which is causing some of the delays: they’re hardware is built to transfer information in a format and “language” to their computer based software, NOT to a mobile app. Information transfer to a mobile app is completely and totally different. Look at Apex Pro: it was built from the ground up to run on a mobile app platform, but even they found just to support both iOS and Android is too complicated, let alone the protocols to a computer based program. It actually may have become a much harder exercise than they anticipated...and my guess is that not only are they developing the app, but major firmware updates to all their product line. No easy task.
as I noted above, being in technology for a large part of my career I learned long ago that what marketing says is more optimistic than what sales says, which is more optimistic than what development says....which in the end is more optimistic than reality. No, that does not make it ok, and yes it’s frustrating, but unfortunately that IS the nature of the technology world....
edit: just read your post above, so obviously I’m kinda preaching to the choir here...
Yes its not as powerful as full desktop apps, but I used the Porsche Track app and it helped me tremendously until I needed more than 1 HZ and wanted both track side quick digestion and then later on the full analysis.
Data Analytics wise, the systems were fundamentally that different in my opinion or at least what I was using it for. (Edit: forgot to mention I use a Mac and didn’t want to run boot camp or parallels so I weighed the benefits of the ease of setup with giving up circuit tools on Mac as well)
Apex Pro was not on the radar for me 2 years ago, but I’m seriously looking into it now as a supplement to the downside of the AIM I have now. It’s not a full replacement, but it’s cheaper than redoing a new single system and provides me with much of my arrive and drive style liking with just a little bit of extra setup.
As a related side note, Nadine and I were talking to a friend that does app development and we discussed another fundamental issue that AiM is probably experiencing which is causing some of the delays: they’re hardware is built to transfer information in a format and “language” to their computer based software, NOT to a mobile app. Information transfer to a mobile app is completely and totally different. Look at Apex Pro: it was built from the ground up to run on a mobile app platform, but even they found just to support both iOS and Android is too complicated, let alone the protocols to a computer based program. It actually may have become a much harder exercise than they anticipated...and my guess is that not only are they developing the app, but major firmware updates to all their product line. No easy task.
And I wiresharked the connection on my Mac and know what transfer protocol its using, and it’s not super difficult since its broadcasting over port 2000 on a standard protocol. What I need help with is the proprietary data component.
Last edited by gtreddy; 12-17-2019 at 09:36 AM.
12-17-2019, 09:15 AM
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The VBOX line offers Windows, Mac OS and iOS versions of the analysis software, and has for several years. A sizable percentage of users take advantage of the Mac OS, less so iOS.
As the first dealer of Apex Pro, I don’t think Andrew and the crew has any idea how far their app development would (and continues to) be developed. It’s quick and easy, which is what MOST users want at the track.
Racepak’s CL1 and CL2 are also very slick and designed for Android and iOS.
All of AutoSport Labs equipment is multiple platform, with a bias towards mobile app.
The thinking towards mobile apps is that the power required to do good calculations is already present in your phone or tablet. For the big stuff, send it to the cloud and let the company servers crunch the numbers and send it all back via wireless or cellular.
It’s just working out the GUI and the communications, then navigating App Store protocol requirements.
It has been my experience in the last fifteen years of selling significant volumes of this equipment to track day, HPDE and club racing users that many of them would rather NOT take a laptop to the track.
It’s good that the movement is towards this kind of app development. Prioritizes ease of use, IMO.
The older VBOX Sport had a 20 Hz GPS engine, too. All for less than $450.
It’s a wonderful world out there. Good tools exist. At all levels.
As the first dealer of Apex Pro, I don’t think Andrew and the crew has any idea how far their app development would (and continues to) be developed. It’s quick and easy, which is what MOST users want at the track.
Racepak’s CL1 and CL2 are also very slick and designed for Android and iOS.
All of AutoSport Labs equipment is multiple platform, with a bias towards mobile app.
The thinking towards mobile apps is that the power required to do good calculations is already present in your phone or tablet. For the big stuff, send it to the cloud and let the company servers crunch the numbers and send it all back via wireless or cellular.
It’s just working out the GUI and the communications, then navigating App Store protocol requirements.
It has been my experience in the last fifteen years of selling significant volumes of this equipment to track day, HPDE and club racing users that many of them would rather NOT take a laptop to the track.
It’s good that the movement is towards this kind of app development. Prioritizes ease of use, IMO.
The older VBOX Sport had a 20 Hz GPS engine, too. All for less than $450.
It’s a wonderful world out there. Good tools exist. At all levels.
02-17-2020, 10:45 PM
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Synced video in race studio 2
I found this thread when searching for any reference to importing gopro video into the app. I can’t find any mention or doing this anywhere. I want to be able to load the video for a specific session, “load video” for the sesion then click on a position in the measures graph to have the video go to that exact time index in the video.
i can “load video” in the window but have to sync it to start point of the first lap. I did that. It is not easy since the video advances 1 sec at a time. Noin between. At 80mph across the line, 1 sec never hits the line. Any ideas? Anyone using this?
problem two it clicking the point on the measures graph to jump to the point in the video. If i have 4 laps selected in the measures graph (speed vs position), the video does not know where to jump to. Do I have to select just one lap at a time. I tried that but it still seems buggy.
i really need to get this to work with multiple laps. When comparing a corner entyr and 3 laps are the same but the 4th is 20 mph less, i want to know why. Seeing the video of that lap and time index will help me see if there was a rider in my way versus the bike running out of gas.
there is nothing on youtube about the feature and google only found this thread. AIM didn’t have any user manual to point me to. I’m frustrated too about no iOS app but the video feature if I can learn to use what it already has would make my year!
appreciate anyone else experience or wisdom with this feature.
i can “load video” in the window but have to sync it to start point of the first lap. I did that. It is not easy since the video advances 1 sec at a time. Noin between. At 80mph across the line, 1 sec never hits the line. Any ideas? Anyone using this?
problem two it clicking the point on the measures graph to jump to the point in the video. If i have 4 laps selected in the measures graph (speed vs position), the video does not know where to jump to. Do I have to select just one lap at a time. I tried that but it still seems buggy.
i really need to get this to work with multiple laps. When comparing a corner entyr and 3 laps are the same but the 4th is 20 mph less, i want to know why. Seeing the video of that lap and time index will help me see if there was a rider in my way versus the bike running out of gas.
there is nothing on youtube about the feature and google only found this thread. AIM didn’t have any user manual to point me to. I’m frustrated too about no iOS app but the video feature if I can learn to use what it already has would make my year!
appreciate anyone else experience or wisdom with this feature.
02-18-2020, 08:44 AM
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there is nothing on youtube about the feature and google only found this thread. AIM didn’t have any user manual to point me to. I’m frustrated too about no iOS app but the video feature if I can learn to use what it already has would make my year!
appreciate anyone else experience or wisdom with this feature.
appreciate anyone else experience or wisdom with this feature.
For your purposes, I would recommend a third party App called CompareMyLaps by Joris Mans. It will do what you want, with finer resolution and is much more usable.
I use other systems with software that already does all this not only automatically, but includes the graphs and split times so I can instantly identify areas of exceptional performance so I can SEE what I did to go faster and do it again. But that requires different hardware than the SmartyCam.
Right now, there is no capability in AiM hardware and software to do this with any reliability. I have recently seen good progress with the Race Studio 3 analysis beta that shows two videos side by side within the analysis window, but it still isn’t quite there and still a ways off from release. Promising, though.