Zurichgnome

Guys, We have a few days of rain heading this way and I plan to spend some time working on my black paint. I often hear about people building up "layers of wax" for greater depth. I'd like to do this. Wondering what the optimal time is between applying layers of wax -- can do you it immediately, is it a few hours, a few days?

An insight much appreciated.

Marine Blue

Spit shining a carnauba will allow immediate layering and it works extremely well. It probably won't change the depth significantly but it will change the feel and it will make it easier to remove bug juice and other road debris down the road. I'm planning on doing the same this week. Go to Autopia and do a search for spit shining to learn more about the technique.

If you don't want to spit shine the alternative is to wait about 5 hours to let the first layer cure.

I personally think the spit shine method works better.

Zurichgnome

Thanks. Great idea. Let me know how that works out. I am going to break down and try "spit shining."

I've hesitated in the past after reading read some technical stuff that calls it into question including a Mequiers tech expert who noted on another forum during a spit-sine discussion: "We recommend two thin layers just for uniform coverage and appearance. We have yet to see anyone definitely prove that you can continue to build layer upon layer of a sealant or wax. That said, we aren't going to stop you if you want to try it, but we will always recommend against that practice with our waxes and sealants."

Since that comes from a guy who is in the wax sales business and the opinion is not in his best interest financially, I've taken it to heart.

But I'll give it a try.

Marine Blue

For the most part it is impossible to add multiple layers of wax and I have experimented and noted this to be true with anything I've ever tried including high end carnauba's, Zaino and other synthetic waxes. The two coat method is definitely a full proof way to get a protective layer on the car but for some reason the spit shine method and a high and carnauba seems to put a thicker layer of wax on the car. You still can't layer it but it definitely doesn't feel the same as having just two coats. I've done it enough times now that I can stay without a doubt it makes a difference otherwise I would never bother to do it again.

Try it on the hood or fender and see what you think. If you can't tell the difference then just put two think coats on. Either way the same amount of product is used, you just use a different technique to apply it.

TOGWT

Spit shining is used for ‘layering’ Organic wax (although in this case the 'spit' used is cold distilled water) to produce a ‘depth of shine’ providing you take the necessary precautions to prevent the solvents both re-liquefying and removing the previous wax layers.

What you are doing is dissolving the solvents so that it doesn't remove the previous layer. One of the very important nuances of layering is to use very little applied pressure and friction when applying subsequent layers as they will have a negative impact on wax thickness Usually a spit shined surface is slicker, smoother, and has different beading characteristics; with even smaller tighter water beads.

The durability is about the same (or slightly better) and although spit shining is very time consuming, the improved depth of shine and glossy appearance is worth it

If you want the full 'spit shining' methodology let me know and I'll post it

Marine Blue

TOGWT please defnitely post the method here, it would be nice to get a refresher and I know you probably have the latest techniques for it.

BTW TOGWT description is spot on, it is exactly what I do when I use this method and more importantly the results are as he describes. Even people who have no clue that I do it will ask why my paint feels and looks different.

No HTwo O

Also read the packaging on the product you are using. Some do have a "cure" time. For example, Zaino has a process for adding additional layers.

TOGWT

'Spit Shining’(Bull polishing)

[Spit shining is the technique that is used to make shoes shine like mirrors - - and some of those tricks can be applied to putting carnauba on your car's paint] NickT

It’s not as lurid as it sounds, I learned how to spit shine boots in the Royal Air Force (RAF), but for those of you who’ve never done it I’ll briefly describe how to spit shine boots to a mirror finish. You’ll need a can of Kiwi shoe wax, a bag of cotton *****, and some cold water. Wet the cotton ball and squeeze out most of the water. Get a very small amount of wax on the cotton ball and wipe it onto the boot - continue wiping until there is no more smudging. Add a little more wax and repeat.

Re-moisten the cotton ball as needed so that it leaves tiny beads of water on the boots. When the cotton ball retains too much wax, then use a new cotton ball, it takes several layers (maybe 6 to 10 or more) to achieve that mirror shine. It’s obvious that the wax builds layers because enough flexing of the leather will cause the wax to flake.

Spit shining is used for ‘layering’ Organic wax (although in this case the 'spit' used is cold distilled water) to produce a ‘depth of shine’ providing you take the necessary precautions to prevent the solvents both re-liquefying and removing the previous wax layers.

What you are doing is dissolving the solvents so that it doesn't remove the previous layer. One of the very important nuances of layering is to use very little applied pressure and friction when applying subsequent layers as they will have a negative impact on wax thickness Usually a spit shined surface is slicker, smoother, and has different beading characteristics; with even smaller tighter water beads. The durability is about the same (or slightly better) and although spit shining is very time consuming, the improved depth of shine and glossy appearance is worth it

Usually, a wax with a high solvent content will remove the previous layer, so use a Carnauba that is not formulated with a high solvent content (Pinnacle Souverän) A solvent will have the potential to strip subsequent layers, but remember that you are not applying neat solvent to the last layer - but a wax and solvent blend. So it is only a fraction of its original strength and won't strip the wax layer like neat solvent. One of the very important nuances of layering is to use very little applied pressure and friction when applying subsequent layers as they will have a negative impact on wax thickness

Using a damp applicator and cold (almost ice) distilled water in a fine mist spray bottle neutralizes any solvents in the newly applied layer; the water should be cold, using ice cold water after applying a wax will harden the wax quicker making the shine deeper and help the new wax adhere to the finish, working until the water/ wax solution disappears.The reason for using a damp applicator is to neutralize the solvents as much as possible, and to avoid the thin coats of wax sticking to the applicator, this enables the wax to build thin, fine coats. Spray fine mists of cold (almost ice) distilled water to a single panel and then apply a light Carnauba wax to the paint surface.

Always apply extremely thin layers using a very light pressure when spit shining, Wipe it onto a small work area and continue wiping until most of the wax disappears. Mist lightly as needed, keeping a few water droplets on the surface. Move to the next work area and repeat. After you do the final area you’ll have a surface with many spots of hazed wax. Lightly mist an area with the very cold distilled water - 1/2 hood or door - and lightly buff with a MF towel. Turn the towel frequently, when the towel becomes too damp switch to a new towel.

When you spray very cold water on a Carnauba wax layer that has been allowed to outgas (i.e. the solvents that make up its carrier system have evaporated) it reduces the wax surface temperature to the point that the next applied waxes carrier solvents do not dilute the previously applied wax and it forms a semi-hard coat.

Allow each subsequent Carnauba waxes solvents to outgas before applying more layers. Spit shining allows definitive layers, as opposed to a thick coat of wax that would result if the solvents dissolve the wax layer that they are applied to.

After 24 hours you can repeat the procedure, using cold (almost ice) distilled water and Pinnacle Crystal Mist (a low solvent quick detail (QD) each coat applied will increase the surface depth of shine with five or six coats being optimal

Use a low-solvent wax (Victoria Concours Wax, Souverän or P21S) Some wax products use an emulsion to keep more liquid without adding solvents which, in high concentrations could remove the underlying wax too rapidly to allow the "melting" together of the wax" strata.



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