carthinker

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the forum and I've been really enjoying it. I'm looking to buy my first Porsche - but I need some "forum-based", crowd-sourced advice. A former "car guy",I've been driving successive Tesla Model Ss for the last 8 years. Loved the car. But I decided to switch for many reasons: Elon's erratic firing supercharger staff spooked me; a little boredom - I've owned a fair number of cars but never a Porsche; and technology is now catching up with the Tesla - notable the fact that plug-in hybrid range has gotten so large that 90% of my time would be low emissions ( important to me).

I've exhausted the YouTube videos/reviews; Test driven the Cayenne Hybrid; BMW 5 50e; Panamera (gas); and BMW 550e as contenders. ( And a bunch of others I'm not considering). All great cars. I keep coming back to the Cayenne for not specific reason other than I can't quite get it out of my head. A sports SUV would be different than the sedans I've been driving; the Cayenne ride was wonderful. BUT, I'm worried I'll miss the Tesla tech - self driving specifically or that the X5 50e comfort might pull me in. Or that the Panamera is too close to what I'm leaving.

I'd like to get a sense from you folk, who may have more hands-on experience with the hybrid or been where I am. Advice on how to think about this decision or real world aspects of these cars that matter? . Any X5 v Cayenne hybrid thoughts ( I've read a bunch of reviews and watched videos here.) One specific question I've got - because the internet is all over the place. What electric range can I reasonably expect?


Thanks for any insight at all!!!

daveo4porsche

Porsche makes a great car and the Hybrid is also good - but if "tech" (software and electronics) is your benchmark Porsche is going to disappoint you.

I've owned driven several Tesla's (Model S P85, P85D, Model X P100D, Model 3 Performance, model Y etc…). Porsche tech is no where near as good as Tesla software - but the cars as "cars" are great and there is nothing better to "drive" …

I'm rocking a 2021 Cayenne eHybrid TurboS - it's a great Hybrid/SUV but it's no Model Y in terms of software/integration/self driving - nor do I expect it to be...

if you're going to take the plunge you have to decide what's important to you - if Tech is your main concern - look elsewhere Porsche is not your brand - if quality well put together excellent cars are your goal Porsche is hard to beat.

ThomasWShea

to add to that: is a car an appliance for you to make life easier? like a dishwasher? if yes, stick with a tesla. if you have a passion for driving and drive just because, you will appreciate the porsche. people that come and get a porsche expecting toyota reliability and luxury are sometimes disappointed. porsche makes cars for drivers. that is my take.

golftime

Tough call. I suspect having had the Tesla tech you might be disappointed in Porsche tech, which I believe is still behind BMW. Additionally, maintenance costs on the Tesla are minimal while Porsche will be at the higher end of the spectrum. Not trying to talk you out of it because the Porsche driving experience is excellent, but you really have to have that as your priority.

Woofman

For comfort, make sure you get the air suspension and double pane thermal/noise insulated glass all around. .

I doubt that it is nearly as good as Tesla's supposedly Full Self Driving feature, but the Porsche InnoDrive option has essentially driven my 2022 Cayenne thousands of miles with little input from me other than gently resting my hands on the steering wheel. I've many times taken my hands off the steering wheel to stretch or take a drink of water and put my hands back on the steering wheel only when my Cayenne starts really nagging me to do it. If I don't put a hand back on the steering wheel after the nagging starts, it will eventually sound alarms, start tugging my seat belt and jolting the brakes to get my attention. If I still don't take control, my Cayenne will brake itself to a full stop, turn on the emergency flashers and call emergency services. The one time I let it get all the way to calling emergency services, the operator who answered seemed amused when I told him I was only testing the system.

InnoDrive doesn't work on all roads. It works only on roads and streets with well marked lane lines although a well defined road edge seems to sometimes fulfill the requirement for a right side lane line. One has to be careful when passing exits while driving on highways if there is no dotted right side continuance lane line at the exit. Sometimes InnoDrive doesn't work when there are perfect lane lines. I'm guessing that roads compatible with InnoDrive are in the navigation system. It will slow down for turns if a navigation destination is set or when a turn signal is activated. It will slow down to almost a stop but not bring the vehicle to a full stop at yield and stop signs. InnoDrive doesn't always follow speed limits correctly and when it does it's 2 or 3 mph below the true speed. It gets speed limits both from road signs and from the navigation system. For example, last weekend during a 700 mile trip, InnoDrive tried to follow the wrong speed limit over and over on a couple of stretches of highway. My guess is that these incorrect speed limits were from former work zones. For the first year I had the Cayenne, an incorrect speed limit would "stick" in the instrument cluster and would not go away until the ignition was turned off and on. Maybe there was an over-the-air fix or something - this problem has not reoccurred in a long time. About two years ago I let InnoDrive do the steering on a roller coaster rural road with no shoulders and no right side lane markings at 55 mph. I don't know how it could do it but the Cayenne could top a blind hill and immediately turn to follow a sharp curve without my intervention .... until my wife starting screaming at me to take control. InnoDrive slows down for inactive school zones but can be overridden by holding the cruise control stalk upward to resume the previous speed limit.

100% of the driving on 2-lane and 4-lane roads in a video I made about my re-coded matrix headlights was done by InnoDrive. I was just riding along and most of the time keeping one or two hands lightly resting on the steering wheel. InnoDrive is available on the Cayenne, Panamera, 911 and Taycan.

3Series

Wrong sub-forum if you are looking for your "first" Porsche....
The Cayenne is an overpriced VW derived SUV used to subsidize sports car and racing development....
But it's the finest driving SUV on the market, not looking at you Urus which probably has higher margins.

Agree with all the other posts. Porsche has always been behind on the tech game. On the sports car side, folks want durability. Drive to the track, lap all day and drive home with no issue. For a novice drive, you can do that for a while straight out of the box. Very few manufacturers have cars where you can do that. Tesla integration and tech is top notch, the ride not so much. BMW has better tech, a good ride and costs less but it doesn't have the brand value as a Porsche, along with all the racing championships and the brand loyalty.

retom

In my new Cayenne turbo e-Hybrid I achieve 75-78 km of pure electric range. But I expect that in winter the range will be about 20% lower.

daveo4porsche

this 100%

daveo4porsche

Cayenne is not the technical excellence you're looking for if your benchmark is Tesla - BMW X5 is a closer fit and has way way better tech vs. Porsche

Innodrive is a sh*tshow for me personally - due to it's unique ability to brake-check cars behind you when it perceives a real/imagined change in speed limit - I have innodrive turned "off" on all my Porsche's and driving only with Active-Lane-Keeping(ALK) and Adaptive-Cruise-Control(ACC) - both of those are passable but no where near as good as Tesla's auto-pilot (not even FSD) - also Innodrive anticipates/slows for upcoming curves/corners and it's a bit too timid for myself and other drivers on the road and I have to override it's speed choice for any/all corners it's taking otherwise be run over by traffic following me too closely waiting for a brake check…

run run run fast and far away for Porsche if _TECH_ is your benchmark for vehicle purchase

now if you want the best "tech" for driving dynamics and physic defying vehicle handling and grip - welcome back to the fold!!!! Porsche is for you! Just don't expect a really smooth car play experience or intuitive menu structure from the PCM while you're pulling 1.8g's on a race track…

no matter how disappointing I find Porsche in the software/tech-forward sphere (and there are many many examples of how they are just sooooo far behind) - I vote with my personal wallet and buy Porsche's because of "other factors" - in fact other brands disappoint me in other dimensions in which Porsche excels - so I make a semi-informed decision and continue to buy Porsche as one of the best vehicles you can actually purchase and drive - I've just given up on Porsche in the tech-areas and apparently so have they…it's not their "focus". But they make an excellent car and my wife and I are always disappointed when we're forced to use another brands vehicle. No matter how good the software…

Tesla was fun while it lasted but they no longer do it for me - and I deeply understand their Pro's/Con's and their "tech" is world class industry leading 10+ years ahead of everyone else - but that alone is not sufficient for me to give them my money…

Porsche makes a excellent car and a mediocre computer system/user-experience
Tesla makes an excellent computer-system/experience and mediocre car

to date BMW comes the closes to matching Tesla/Prosche in both dimensions but isn't quite as good as either one in both Dimensions.

Driving & Mechanicals: [BEST] Porsche > BMW > virtually everyone other brand > Tesla [Worst]
Technology/Software/User experience: [BEST] Tesla > BMW > Mercedes > Audi > a lot of other brands > Porsche > the rest of the brands… [Worst]

purchase for your personal priority and you'l be happier in the end.

mattvandyk

So, the tech in these cars is mid, at best (think pre-COVID LKA & ACC and that’s about it). Coming from an Escalade w/ SuperCruise, it was, frankly, kinda shocking the gap. Coming from a Tesla, you’re gonna feel like you’re stepping backwards a decade.

But, then again, this car (‘24 Turbo E-Hybrid) is miles better in literally every other way. I won’t even bother listing them; but literally any other metric you can think of, it’s on a different planet. And, especially coming from a Tesla, the expert packaging, fit and finish, etc., is just not even comparable.

As compared to the others in the segment, we cross shipped it with a GLE 63 and X5M, and each of the 3 had their distinct characteristics.

The Merc was like somebody took a GLE and crammed every single racey thing they could dream up into it. It was a rocketship, but the interior looked like a shiny race car, and it’s not. There’s a certain vibe/persona you gotta have to drive that thing, and as much as I loved the grunt, I no way could’ve lived with it.

The BMW was just frankly boring. It did everything fine. It didn’t shine in any particular area; it was just kinda okay. Way more understated than the Merc (and, frankly, the Cayenne, but that’s just cuz of the nameplate), so if that’s your thing, maybe you go that route. But, it felt sort of designed by committee, if that makes sense.

Except only for the nameplate, the Cayenne is the perfect “sleeper” SUV. It’s miles more comfortable to drive in “around town” mode than its competitors; the normal setting on the suspension is perfection; the ev element is perfect in town (more on that below); the fit and finish is spectacular; and it looks stunning. And them, when you turn the dial or press a button, there’s 700+ HP and all the accompanying nose to make you forget what it is exactly you’re driving. All that power really does an excellent job masking the 2 tons or whatever this thing weighs. It’s a better “normie car,” a better “flashy car,” and a better “sporty car,” than any of its competitors, all rolled into one package. The tech sucks, there’s no getting around that; but everything else is so perfect, you’ll forget that soon.

Oh, and the E-Hybrid bit was a bit of an afterthought for us (obviously, given the ones we cross shipped it with), but it’s actually quite cool. It is integrated seamlessly, and I mean seamlessly. It functions exactly as one would hope. We get just shy of 50 miles per charge, but the ev elements here are supplemental, not the main show. They’re for helping to spool up the turbos when you want to rip it up a bit, but otherwise, they help transform it into a very docile and functional car. It basically lets you pick up you your kids at school without sounding like a machine gun going off at the exhaust in the parking lot.

carthinker

Thanks All! Heading to Porsche ad tomorrow for a spin in a coupe.

I'm pretty heartened by all of this.I'd like a better ride and something safe with a sporty feel with enough tech to be used on the highways or in traffic with attentive confidence.

As for Tech.... @Woofman - your video and story were really helpful to me. All I want the car to do is a safe tech assisted driving on highways with my hands on the wheel. I want the car to scream if it thinks I'm going to get into a collision. I excellent stop and go automation in traffic; And I want it to do something dramatic and quick if it thinks something has happened to me. Sound reasonable. Your video makes me think that innodrive is ok on that front. The Tesla does much more - but I'm not interested in much beyond that. I like to otherwise drive my car.

As for Drivingr - I want the car to make me smile around corners; To have plenty of acceleration to keep me safe on short entrance ramps; , to have smooth, solid road connection; And to be weather tough. Basically, it should be fun to drive without being nuts

Sound reasonable?

ThomasWShea

those are not reasonable expectations for the performance i am seeing in my 2024 cayenne. it just isn’t that reliable in the porsche. I would say at least once a week since i got my car in Nov. i have needed to intervene. you will need to always be ready to take over. the features are helpful, but you can’t daze off at all.

mattvandyk

Your description of what you want in the tech is more than this car delivers. It’s literally 2012 (at best) when it comes to these features. The ACC doesn’t even competently accelerate/decelerate. If these features are important to you, I strongly recommend you thoroughly test them when you drive the car. It’s just not good at that stuff.

everywhere else tho, it’s unbelievable. Just make sure you know what you’re getting on the tech front.

daveo4porsche

as others have said - yeah Porsche won't do that - you are apply Tesla expectations to a german performance brand that values driver engagement as a major design goal - you will be severely disappointed in Porsche's level of driving assistance technology.

MAXFPS

@carthinker My base ‘24 Cayenne was my first Porsche, and now I have two more incoming. Coming from 10 years of Audi driving, I had no idea a car, much less a heavy SUV, could make me enjoy driving so much. So I’ve ordered a Turbo E-Hybrid fully customized with all the goodies I didn’t get on my base. I can hardly believe this car can get much better, and can do 0-60 2 seconds faster than what I’m driving right now!
And the tech on the ‘24s and later Cayenne is decent. I love the new digital gauges many of the owners of older gens that prefer analog lament. And the passenger screen is seriously cool. Compared to Audi’s aging tech, it’s an upgrade. It’ll keep you in your lane, show a 3D spin of your car surroundings with the cameras, and the night vision will warn you if there’s a deer next to the road. It takes 10 minutes to get a movie playing, but when it works it’s spectacular. Still, not quite as full featured as my son’s ‘24 Mercedes C-class. But I crave all the tech and this car has enough that it does not leave me wanting at least. But it’s all about the cornering…. As JayEmm one of the YouTubers said of the Cayenne GTS “I’ve never seen a hippo do ballet… until now.”

The Cayenne is the finest car I’ve ever owned, just be warned Porsche is addictive, and expensive!