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I live over the other side of the pond and have a 2013 Cayenne Diesel S (4.2 diesel) - 80,000 miles.
Recently, this started exhibiting signs of judder in second gear, pointing to transfer case problems.
Following the great DIY transfer fluid change guide on this forum I recently drained and replaced the fluid using the recommended Ravenol Transfer Case Fluid.
The judder has now completely vanished and interestingly, what I noticed was that the old fluid was darkish in colour and of thin viscocity.
I would urge anyone experiencing the early signs of transfer case problems to try the fluid change first using the Ravenol fluid as I am not convinced that the Porsche OE fluid is capable of lasting the course, the replacement Ravenol fluid is inexpensive and fluid change only takes about 10 minutes or so!
Last weekend I did a third fluid change. It was acting as badly as it ever had and I'm too busy to fix or drop it off to this indy shop. However this time I was looking at this partial bottle of TransX friction modifier I had lying around.
Not sure where I even got it, probably from cleaning out my parents house 10 years ago. After some research it seemed like a close enough designation to the Ford fluid recommended in this thread that I went ahead and put about 3 ounces into my mix. All I can say is WOW. The difference is stunning. It is like night and day. I mean fluid changes alone weren't really doing a whole lot and not for very long. I haven't driven a ton of miles yet but using it every day since then it is like butter. No crunching, no speed bumps. It's better BY FAR than the day after I bought car (lol) about 10K miles ago. At this point I'll drive as long as I can and see what happens. If you've done a fluid change and symptoms are coming back like mine, I highly recommend adding a friction modifier.
Last weekend I did a third fluid change. It was acting as badly as it ever had and I'm too busy to fix or drop it off to this indy shop. However this time I was looking at this partial bottle of TransX friction modifier I had lying around.
Not sure where I even got it, probably from cleaning out my parents house 10 years ago. After some research it seemed like a close enough designation to the Ford fluid recommended in this thread that I went ahead and put about 3 ounces into my mix. All I can say is WOW. The difference is stunning. It is like night and day. I mean fluid changes alone weren't really doing a whole lot and not for very long. I haven't driven a ton of miles yet but using it every day since then it is like butter. No crunching, no speed bumps. It's better BY FAR than the day after I bought car (lol) about 10K miles ago. At this point I'll drive as long as I can and see what happens. If you've done a fluid change and symptoms are coming back like mine, I highly recommend adding a friction modifier.
*individual results may vary
GREAT to hear! I think I still have half a bottle of GM friction modifier (used in Corvette limited slips..) I think it might just make it's way into my transfer case just for the heck of it..
GREAT to hear! I think I still have half a bottle of GM friction modifier (used in Corvette limited slips..) I think it might just make it's way into my transfer case just for the heck of it..
So in thinking about this (maybe over-thinking it), is it at all possible that adding these additional friction modifiers beyond what's specified by Porsche is allowing too much slip for the clutch packs, thereby causing them to not quite perform as they should (perhaps allowing too much slip before they engage?), but quieting all the unwanted noises/thumps such that all seems good?? Just curious about that.
So in thinking about this (maybe over-thinking it), is it at all possible that adding these additional friction modifiers beyond what's specified by Porsche is allowing too much slip for the clutch packs, thereby causing them to not quite perform as they should (perhaps allowing too much slip before they engage?), but quieting all the unwanted noises/thumps such that all seems good?? Just curious about that.
I've thought about the same thing.. but I believe the control unit may compensate for less friction in the clutch packs, or not. The front and rear axles are always engaged - just the proportion of torque going to them changes. Same question would apply to it's primary use - limited slip differentials - could the additive reduce the limiting of slip so it's ineffectual? I haven't heard of that happening.
So my answer is - dunno. But if you have a transfer case that needs rebuilding or replacement - what'cha got to lose?
I've thought about the same thing.. but I believe the control unit may compensate for less friction in the clutch packs, or not. The front and rear axles are always engaged - just the proportion of torque going to them changes. Same question would apply to it's primary use - limited slip differentials - could the additive reduce the limiting of slip so it's ineffectual? I haven't heard of that happening.
So my answer is - dunno. But if you have a transfer case that needs rebuilding or replacement - what'cha got to lose?
All good thoughts. My thinking HAD been that the clutches were simply binding then breaking free, not slipping as intended at all. I noticed that symptoms in my case were similar regardless of whether or not I was under moderate accel or barely accel once out of 2nd and into 3rd or higher. I would also notice it at highway speed in higher gears when trying to accel. This is in addition to the low speed turn crunching that is so prevalent in LSD's that have binding clutches. That also went away immediately.
Obviously I can't tell what's happening inside the case or whether I'm losing performance compared to a new case. I'll continue to enjoy it unless or until I need to address it again. Maybe it's something all these German guys shoulda thought of from the get go.
I've thought about the same thing.. but I believe the control unit may compensate for less friction in the clutch packs, or not. The front and rear axles are always engaged - just the proportion of torque going to them changes. Same question would apply to it's primary use - limited slip differentials - could the additive reduce the limiting of slip so it's ineffectual? I haven't heard of that happening.
So my answer is - dunno. But if you have a transfer case that needs rebuilding or replacement - what'cha got to lose?
Yeah, was just curious and thinking through the issue a bit more as I read the latest posts. But certainly, if someone's out of warranty and facing issues that a little additional fluid additive seems to cure for a while at the very least, absolutely go for it!
Yeah, was just curious and thinking through the issue a bit more as I read the latest posts. But certainly, if someone's out of warranty and facing issues that a little additional fluid additive seems to cure for a while at the very least, absolutely go for it!
Where in NoVa are you generally? I'm in Springfield at Malfunction Junction.
Good to know. Grew up in FFX near George Mason, have property in Fauquier between Marshall and Linden.
Wow, we probably grew up very close to one another then. As a kid we lived in Kings Park West off Braddock just down from GMU. This was in the late 60s/early 70s though, before we left to go overseas for a while. I attended Robinson the very first year it opened.
Wow, we probably grew up very close to one another then. As a kid we lived in Kings Park West off Braddock just down from GMU. This was in the late 60s/early 70s though, before we left to go overseas for a while. I attended Robinson the very first year it opened.
Small world. KPW is where I lived, did Robinson all 4 years graduating '75. We got bused to Holmes for 2 years while Robinson was being built. We moved there in summer of '68. Commonwealth Blvd ended one house past ours at that time.
What I initially wanted to ask you is of you deal with a dealer you like at all? I went to P Arlington for my recall work but price quotes for other stuff were crazy high compared to what I've seen here from others.
Small world. KPW is where I lived, did Robinson all 4 years graduating '75. We got bused to Holmes for 2 years while Robinson was being built. We moved there in summer of '68. Commonwealth Blvd ended one house past ours at that time.
What I initially wanted to ask you is of you deal with a dealer you like at all? I went to P Arlington for my recall work but price quotes for other stuff were crazy high compared to what I've seen here from others.
Wow, that’s about the time we moved to KPW, it was just being built. We lived on DeQuincey Dr., right off Commonwealth.
As for area P dealers, when I was shopping for a Macan this summer, I went over to Arlington to check one out they had in Arena Red (rare color). The salesman I chatted with was a decent guy, but the management there was not what I was used to in comparison to the other 2 P dealers I’ve purchased from. Higher pressure, typical car dealer sales tactics....could have been in a Ford dealer or something.
I like Porsche Tysons, that’s where I bought my Macan GTS, my second purchase from them. Also if you want to venture further west, Porsche Charlottesville is a smaller very decent dealership. Feel free to send me a PM if you want POCs for either of those dealers.
One more data point back on the Transfer Case topic. After bringing my 2016 Cayenne S in for the 3rd time complaining about the transfer case issue, they did reproduce it and did replace it under warranty.
Vitals:
- 22k on the Cayenne
- symptoms were rapidly worsening "thumping" in 2nd and 3rd gear, which I believe was caused by the clutches binding/slipping
- also was grabby in slow corners
So far so good in 50 miles today. Feels like a new car. I will now add transfer case fluid R&R to my list of semi regular maintenance items.
