Valvefloat991

I just did my first oil change on the 2013 Cayenne S I bought about a year ago. The instructions posted in the 958 Cayenne DIY: V8 Oil Change w/pictures were excellent. But I am deeply disappointed by the engineering that demands this convoluted procedure.

A 2007 BMW 335i had a an oil filter housing accessible from the top of the engine and a trap door in the belly pan to allow draining the engine sump. This is an intelligent setup that should be standard procedure on a modern car. Sadly, not so on the Cayenne S.

The oil filter is located underneath in a not particularly convenient location, which can only be accessed after removing the car's forward belly pan. This is inept enough, but then it turns out that the engine's drain plug is located right at the leading edge of the second belly pan, requiring its removal as well.

Could it be any dumber? Why not relocate the drain plug forward three inches, to clear the second belly pan? Or if Porsche was too cheap to make this change when switching from the 957 to the 958 generation, why not at least change the design of the belly pans to create an opening below the drain plug in the second belly pan that could be filled by a tongue extending from the first belly pan? Since those belly pans are different in the two generations, that change would have cost nothing more than a few minutes of thought.

Porsche engineering is often praised for delivering great performance and an engaging driving experience, but this convoluted oil change procedure is engineering malpractice. A baboon could have done better, especially since ameliorating this procedure would not compromise any of the Cayenne's positive qualities.

Makes me wonder if Porsches are great due to superior engineering, or simply because the engineers in Stuttgart are given more sporting goals and fatter budgets than their counterparts in Detroit.

skiahh

Huh, I found the oil change on my diesel to be very easy and straightforward. Sure, you have to remove the undercladding, but a few screws and it's out of the way. Cover the crossmember in tinfoil or something, pull the drain and let it go. Now, the diesel has a filter canister on top of the engine, so that's really easy, too.

No malpractice there.

I've cursed many engineers to eternity in hell working on the designs they've created, but so far, no cursing of the Cayenne (diesel) engineers. Just did brakes and they were also easy.

garrett376

Sounds like you've never owned an air cooled 911 (or similar old car) and done valve lash adjustments every 3K miles. Or changed a 996turbo's oil: there are 4 drains for the engine oil alone.

Valvefloat991

I did own a '74 911 but I don't recall it needing a valve lash every 3K miles. And it did have two drain plugs, but with the dry-sump oil system, there was a good reason for that.

hotrod2448

If they made the design optimal for doing things like oil changes they'd have a harder time commanding $500 per oil change. It's the same reason they design drains that clog every time something falls out of a tree and you can't reset the oil change indicator via the PCM... just stop by your friendly local Porsche dealer and they'll take care of those minor annoyances for a mere pittance.

Also, as a long time BMW owner I don't know that I'd hold them up as the engineering standard of excellence. Yes, the oil change process is generally more user friendly but, whoever signed off on eliminating woodruff keys on the cranks of their engines should be fired. I'll take a sloppy oil change over an engine jumping time all day and twice on Sundays.

They all have “quirks” that you look at and think “WTF? Really? That’s how they decided to do that?”

cwheeler

Get a fumoto valve and drain tube adapter. Makes oil changes easier and cleaner.

DarkHorseMC

These work surprisingly well.... https://www.harborfreight.com/6-1-4-...tor-46149.html

TRD_Power

Maybe I'm just used to cars that are a pain in the *** to do oil changes on, but I found my '13 CS to be fairly easy and not really much different from the rest. I do remember my ex's 330ci being extremely easy to change the oil on, however, that's the only thing that was good about that absolute abomination of a car (NEVER again, BMW.... Never again...). As mentioned, the reason for making simple tasks like this a bit harder is likely to make the owners just intimidated enough to where they're more willing to shovel out $500 for an oil change, rather than tackle it on their own. The Cayenne has been fairly easy to work on compared to my '08 GS460 Lexus, but that's mostly due to the height and accessibility of the vehicle; I'm definitely more confident in the materials under the hood of the Lexus when I start pulling things apart or screwing things down, however.

Eskimo1

Try working on an Italian (I'm sure cars are the same too).. I swear, the early design conversations go something along the lines of "OK.. let's set our goals. Number 1: It must be veddy a-sexy.. Bella! Number 2: It must be veddy fast. OK, that'sa good enough! Vino!"

One of my Aprilia bikes has a spark plug that is not only close, but faces directly at the (very sexy) frame spar, requiring nothing less than 2 universal joints, a few very specific length socket extensions, and some luck to remove. Installation is worse. I still love the damn thing though.

On the Germans, I do chuckle that (in general), anything with a triple-square (12 point) bolt is basically their way of saying "You're not supposed to be messing with this, you shade-tree mechanic guy!"

docwyte

Try changing the oil on a ktm 640 adventure. Two oil filters, one oil screen, plus you have to put oil in the frame and burp it.

DrBillyD

You're bumping up against two things here:

The Porsche Mechanic Full Employment Act: I did an oil/filter change once on my 2014 CTTS and swore off it. From having to remove the belly pans and then loosen up some conduit/piping to get the filter off..... Fuhgeddaboutit. Gladly fork over $175 to my indy to do the job. Other than that though, I've actually been pleasantly surprised at how easy it is to wrench on the beast (e.g. spark plugs, air filters, brakes). Only other thing that's kinda stupidly designed IMO is the cabin air filter access. So, as others have noted, making it difficult for the DIY crowd keeps Porsche service departments busy.

German engineering: The attitude of most engineers seems to be that they design things properly, it's just that the cretinous end-user is most often an idiot who doesn't appreciate their wonderful work. Seems exacerbated in Deutschland.

Another example of even worse engineering is in most Mercedes. Seems like they're even more over the top in terms of not wanting the owner to wrench their creation.

nerdtalker

I'd actually even go further, with air suspension the 958TT (and honestly 955TT before it I owned) is the easiest car in my fleet to change the oil on. Crank ride height to the maximum, disable the air suspension height adjustment, one drain plug, only difficult thing is the filter behind some PDCC hoses that are easy enough to push aside.

996TT with the 4 drain bolts and special drain tank two wrench method to avoid damaging the brazed together seal is my least favorite.

Valvefloat991

I'll take a look at that.

Valvefloat991

I don't believe my Cayenne has a dip stick.

Valvefloat991

My point isn't the absolute difficulty. Yes, the TT has four drain plugs. But I'm guessing one is for the dry sump oil tank, one is for the sump, and two are for the remote sumps on each turbocharger. That may be a pain, but there are decent reasons for the complication.

I still maintain that the arrangement on my Cayenne is needlessly difficult for no good reason. And I don't regard motivating owners to use Porsche dealers' service departments to be a good reason.