Cardan Shaft EPS Clamp on support
11-26-2013, 09:13 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Cardan Shaft EPS Clamp on support
Hey All,
Well my struggles continue. My Cardan shaft bearing failed for the second time on my '04 Cayenne S. The original was replaced around 60K+ and this one failed at 135. Since it wasn't covered under warranty I opted for the Vertex 2 piece Clamp on solution. Once the bearing ring is cut and removed, I used a razor blade and cut off the rubber. With a really good razor blade and mechanics gloves I was surprised how cleanly I was able to get off all of the rubber. Don't get me wrong it took a lot patience and time but it came out really clean. I then pride off the two sealant bearing rings and carefully repacked the bearings. The bearing ring spun smoothly but after watching the Vertex video I decided what the heck I will pack them. You would be surprised how much new grease I was able to pack in there. Pressed the rings back in and started clamping the Vertex Supports in. There is one thing that really pissed me off about the Vertex EPS solution. They did not provide a long allen wrench. I mean really, for $480 throw in an extended length allen wrench. I had to struggle with a normal size one as I didn't have the correct extended one. Now onto the rubber flex disc. I called vertex and they said if your current one is in good condition you don't need to replace it. Put the supports on, drive and if a vibration is present then put on the flex disc. Well, I just came in for another beer before I button everything up but I think I am going to put on the flex disc while I have the main support bracket off. I will let you know how that goes in a bit
Well my struggles continue. My Cardan shaft bearing failed for the second time on my '04 Cayenne S. The original was replaced around 60K+ and this one failed at 135. Since it wasn't covered under warranty I opted for the Vertex 2 piece Clamp on solution. Once the bearing ring is cut and removed, I used a razor blade and cut off the rubber. With a really good razor blade and mechanics gloves I was surprised how cleanly I was able to get off all of the rubber. Don't get me wrong it took a lot patience and time but it came out really clean. I then pride off the two sealant bearing rings and carefully repacked the bearings. The bearing ring spun smoothly but after watching the Vertex video I decided what the heck I will pack them. You would be surprised how much new grease I was able to pack in there. Pressed the rings back in and started clamping the Vertex Supports in. There is one thing that really pissed me off about the Vertex EPS solution. They did not provide a long allen wrench. I mean really, for $480 throw in an extended length allen wrench. I had to struggle with a normal size one as I didn't have the correct extended one. Now onto the rubber flex disc. I called vertex and they said if your current one is in good condition you don't need to replace it. Put the supports on, drive and if a vibration is present then put on the flex disc. Well, I just came in for another beer before I button everything up but I think I am going to put on the flex disc while I have the main support bracket off. I will let you know how that goes in a bit
11-26-2013, 11:43 PM
#2
I recently used the vertex unit as well, all in all it's an easy straightforward job. I did not repack the bearing. How did you do that?
Here's what I learned doing the job:
The new flex disc is slightly narrower than the original flex disc. There are two different length bolts that connect the flex disk to the transmission. Make sure you mark which ones come out of which part of the flex disc coupling, because with the narrower flex disc the bolts may rub if you get them mixed up. Tightening torque is 56 foot-pounds.
Realigning the bolt holes can be a challenge, I eventually put the car in neutral and chocked one of the tires. Then I moved the chocks about a foot behind the tire and a foot in front of the tire. This allowed me to rotate the transmission until the bolts aligned. It also allowed me to rotate the shaft so that I could tighten all six of the bolts. The chocks prevented me from getting run over (The work was done on level ground).
I drove it for about two weeks with the old flex disc and had slight vibrations. Replacing the flex disc and realigning the support bearing cured the vibrations.
Oh, and I used Loctite on the four allen screws on the EPS bearing itself.
Here's what I learned doing the job:
The new flex disc is slightly narrower than the original flex disc. There are two different length bolts that connect the flex disk to the transmission. Make sure you mark which ones come out of which part of the flex disc coupling, because with the narrower flex disc the bolts may rub if you get them mixed up. Tightening torque is 56 foot-pounds.
Realigning the bolt holes can be a challenge, I eventually put the car in neutral and chocked one of the tires. Then I moved the chocks about a foot behind the tire and a foot in front of the tire. This allowed me to rotate the transmission until the bolts aligned. It also allowed me to rotate the shaft so that I could tighten all six of the bolts. The chocks prevented me from getting run over (The work was done on level ground).
I drove it for about two weeks with the old flex disc and had slight vibrations. Replacing the flex disc and realigning the support bearing cured the vibrations.
Oh, and I used Loctite on the four allen screws on the EPS bearing itself.
11-26-2013, 11:45 PM
#3
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glad you posted about the long wrench needed- as i am afraid my shaft is going and am considering the same fix! let us know how your saga continues with the flex disc- hope all is good soon! these p!gs can be annoying at times but i still love them!!
11-27-2013, 08:08 AM
#5
Instructor
Thread Starter
Jagman, I jacked up the rear of the vehicle and put the car in neutral. This allowed me to spin the shaft. Additionally, the flex disc was really simple. I marked the alignment and didn't have any issues with the bolts. In my kit from Vertex the bolts were all the exact same size and were TorX head bolts. Packing the bearing was very easy. I used a very thin and small flat head screw driver and carefully pulled out the two bearing rings. You can see how to do that from the Vertex video demo. Pack them and push the seal rings in.
11-27-2013, 11:50 AM
#6
Hmm. Well, hopefully mine will be ok without repacking. I'd probably ding up the seals anyway and then be really screwed.
As for the bolt length, it was the original Porsche bolts that were different lengths. Three were shorter, three were slightly longer. If you reinstall them in the wrong place they rub the black shield at the rear of the transfer case. The new Vertex bolts that were supplied were all the same length and were the longer of the two lengths. With them I noticed that it would rub, so I reused the original bolts and used the new locking nuts from the Vertex kit.
As for the bolt length, it was the original Porsche bolts that were different lengths. Three were shorter, three were slightly longer. If you reinstall them in the wrong place they rub the black shield at the rear of the transfer case. The new Vertex bolts that were supplied were all the same length and were the longer of the two lengths. With them I noticed that it would rub, so I reused the original bolts and used the new locking nuts from the Vertex kit.
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07-19-2014, 09:51 PM
#8
My turn to do this job. Car has 79K miles. Got the Vertex mount. My 2 cents:
1. If anyone sees the broken OEM mount, there is no way one would elect to replace it with the same unit. Having a rubber donut around a driveshaft is just a breakdown waiting to happen.
2. If your car has over 50K miles, replace the center mount now rather than wait for it to break
3. If you take it to the dealer they will replace the whole drive shaft. Not only is this costly, it's not necessary (unless your bearing is actually broken). It's like replacing your muffler because the muffler mount is broken.
4. The Vertex solution is really quite an easy DYI project. I didn't even need to lift the car. It takes a bit of patience to scrape the old rubber off, but razor blade works wonders
5. I'm not prying open the seal to repack the bearing. It looks too vulnerable of a job. If I break the seal then I'd be screwed. If the mount weren't broken, no one would ever repack the bearing anyways.
6. If your bearing is chirping, then you're better off buying a new drive shaft.
1. If anyone sees the broken OEM mount, there is no way one would elect to replace it with the same unit. Having a rubber donut around a driveshaft is just a breakdown waiting to happen.
2. If your car has over 50K miles, replace the center mount now rather than wait for it to break
3. If you take it to the dealer they will replace the whole drive shaft. Not only is this costly, it's not necessary (unless your bearing is actually broken). It's like replacing your muffler because the muffler mount is broken.
4. The Vertex solution is really quite an easy DYI project. I didn't even need to lift the car. It takes a bit of patience to scrape the old rubber off, but razor blade works wonders
5. I'm not prying open the seal to repack the bearing. It looks too vulnerable of a job. If I break the seal then I'd be screwed. If the mount weren't broken, no one would ever repack the bearing anyways.
6. If your bearing is chirping, then you're better off buying a new drive shaft.
Last edited by racer_65; 07-20-2014 at 01:02 PM.
07-20-2014, 11:57 AM
#9
Drifting
I'm next. The P!G has only 65,300 miles, and was driven gently. But, I live in searing Southern California Low Desert heat(110F). Saw the Vertex video and is ready to tackle this fix. Who has the best prices on this part? Coupon Codes, anybody???
07-21-2014, 01:15 AM
#11
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Just one comment:
That's actually a VERY common Euro design. Every BMW made for the past 40 years (since the 2002) has used that design, and the rubber mount very rarely fails (and the bearing and mount were made to be replaceable.) Having owned about 8 BMW cars, I never experienced a center-bearing mount failure, nor any driveshaft related failure. I think this is a case of a very heavy driveshaft supported by an inadequately sized rubber mount on the Cayenne, compounded by a design making it difficult to replace the failed part. I put it down to crappy engineering, not a flawed "design"..
That's actually a VERY common Euro design. Every BMW made for the past 40 years (since the 2002) has used that design, and the rubber mount very rarely fails (and the bearing and mount were made to be replaceable.) Having owned about 8 BMW cars, I never experienced a center-bearing mount failure, nor any driveshaft related failure. I think this is a case of a very heavy driveshaft supported by an inadequately sized rubber mount on the Cayenne, compounded by a design making it difficult to replace the failed part. I put it down to crappy engineering, not a flawed "design"..
07-21-2014, 07:48 PM
#12
Drifting
What can you expect, with a 2mm thin rubber membrane, subject to forces similar to what a subwoofer speaker undergoes? I'm currently researching a temporary fix, as I wait for my carbon fiber, one-piece shaft.
07-21-2014, 09:10 PM
#13
Just an FYI for any Cayenne Turbo S owners out there...
I contacted Vertex (was re-routed to them when I e-mailed EPS) and they confirmed that this part will work on a Cayenne Turbo S (955 or 957). Their description of the part does not list the Turbo S, and the Turbo S has a different cardan shaft than the rest of the Cayennes, thus the confusion.
I contacted Vertex (was re-routed to them when I e-mailed EPS) and they confirmed that this part will work on a Cayenne Turbo S (955 or 957). Their description of the part does not list the Turbo S, and the Turbo S has a different cardan shaft than the rest of the Cayennes, thus the confusion.
07-22-2014, 10:29 AM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Yes on the current Cayenne's as far as the design. Whether or not they improved the part time will tell I second deilenberger on the design. Also common on Audi Quattros and they only wear out at 150K~250K, but then it is usually the bearing that goes, not the rubber on the center support bearing.