Hello Mr. Chips?
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From: Texas Hill Country
Hello Mr. Chips?
My new for me CTT should arrive Tuesday. I have a superstition which causes me to 'buy a gift' for any new or new for me car I acquire so I did an Internet search for CTT accessories to welcome the new family member to our garage.
The search turned up a few floor mats (meh) and to my surprise, a chip maker called RaceChip. Interested, I checked this place out. If it's real, the increased power from one of these devices installed in our new CTT is astounding - 75 kw or even more.
Is this for real and safe? I suppose a chip can spin the turbos faster for more power but won't do much for the engine life and may even grenade the thing. Still, at least based on the Web site, this outfit seems to have been in business a long time and I can't see that from having a rep grenading engines.
Are any members using performance chips and if so, any RaceChip but in any case, is this all vapor or do they work?
As an aside, I chipped a BMW once for an obvious increase in power but that was due to it also probably making the car less clean air than it was stocker. I didn't think those tricks worked any more due to mfgs having optimized their powertrains.
The search turned up a few floor mats (meh) and to my surprise, a chip maker called RaceChip. Interested, I checked this place out. If it's real, the increased power from one of these devices installed in our new CTT is astounding - 75 kw or even more.
Is this for real and safe? I suppose a chip can spin the turbos faster for more power but won't do much for the engine life and may even grenade the thing. Still, at least based on the Web site, this outfit seems to have been in business a long time and I can't see that from having a rep grenading engines.
Are any members using performance chips and if so, any RaceChip but in any case, is this all vapor or do they work?
As an aside, I chipped a BMW once for an obvious increase in power but that was due to it also probably making the car less clean air than it was stocker. I didn't think those tricks worked any more due to mfgs having optimized their powertrains.
Nordschleife Master
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I don't know about this specific one but really tunes are broken into ECU reflashes and tuner boxes that sit between the ECU and engine (turbos and/or fuel rail). The ECU flashes can get your more, but more aggressive ones may demand other upgrades (CAI, bigger intercooler, etc...). Bad ones can indeed cause harm over the short and long term as well as triggering warning lights. You also have the worry of the dealer reflashing your ECU (for a repair/campaign or out of malice if it's an anti-mod dealer). If you don't have a local person to do it, this can also involve removing and shipping off your ECU which leaves you without the vehicle for some time.
Tuner boxes don't tend to be as aggressive, are usually plug and play, and have less long term problems. Some offer user selectable maps as well so you can adjust it to meet your needs at a given time.
I don't know specifics on the CTT, but all these options do add power (if they fully meet their claims takes a dyno to tell you). I can tell you that the tuner box I put on my diesel indeed makes a performance difference (you can feel that extra torque) and also actually increases the MPG too (not quite the 15% claim, but not far off). I'll find out next weekend what a dyno says about the actual power gains.
From what I've seen GIAC seems to be a pretty solid ECU tuning player for the Cayenne. No direct knowledge though.
Tuner boxes don't tend to be as aggressive, are usually plug and play, and have less long term problems. Some offer user selectable maps as well so you can adjust it to meet your needs at a given time.
I don't know specifics on the CTT, but all these options do add power (if they fully meet their claims takes a dyno to tell you). I can tell you that the tuner box I put on my diesel indeed makes a performance difference (you can feel that extra torque) and also actually increases the MPG too (not quite the 15% claim, but not far off). I'll find out next weekend what a dyno says about the actual power gains.
From what I've seen GIAC seems to be a pretty solid ECU tuning player for the Cayenne. No direct knowledge though.
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Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Texas Hill Country
I don't know about this specific one but really tunes are broken into ECU reflashes and tuner boxes that sit between the ECU and engine (turbos and/or fuel rail). The ECU flashes can get your more, but more aggressive ones may demand other upgrades (CAI, bigger intercooler, etc...). Bad ones can indeed cause harm over the short and long term as well as triggering warning lights. You also have the worry of the dealer reflashing your ECU (for a repair/campaign or out of malice if it's an anti-mod dealer). If you don't have a local person to do it, this can also involve removing and shipping off your ECU which leaves you without the vehicle for some time.
Tuner boxes don't tend to be as aggressive, are usually plug and play, and have less long term problems. Some offer user selectable maps as well so you can adjust it to meet your needs at a given time.
I don't know specifics on the CTT, but all these options do add power (if they fully meet their claims takes a dyno to tell you). I can tell you that the tuner box I put on my diesel indeed makes a performance difference (you can feel that extra torque) and also actually increases the MPG too (not quite the 15% claim, but not far off). I'll find out next weekend what a dyno says about the actual power gains.
From what I've seen GIAC seems to be a pretty solid ECU tuning player for the Cayenne. No direct knowledge though.
Tuner boxes don't tend to be as aggressive, are usually plug and play, and have less long term problems. Some offer user selectable maps as well so you can adjust it to meet your needs at a given time.
I don't know specifics on the CTT, but all these options do add power (if they fully meet their claims takes a dyno to tell you). I can tell you that the tuner box I put on my diesel indeed makes a performance difference (you can feel that extra torque) and also actually increases the MPG too (not quite the 15% claim, but not far off). I'll find out next weekend what a dyno says about the actual power gains.
From what I've seen GIAC seems to be a pretty solid ECU tuning player for the Cayenne. No direct knowledge though.
http://www.racechip.com/
I don't want to bother with the ECU re-programming because it'd affect my CPO and even if the dealer still honored the CPO, he'd surely flash the ECU back to stock so that's like Spy vs Spy competition -as you note.
Based on what I saw at that site, you can bias the tuner box to either more MPG or more power or maybe a bit of both. It sounds ideal to me.
I know such tuner boxes exist for bikes and work well allowing you to tune the bike on any given day for the purpose intended. While I think this outfit honest, I'd prefer hearing from an RL member who has used this specific one.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Roy, WA
It may not be Superstition but we all have an addiction or affliction, that is why were on the list here. I have the Eurocharged tune www.eurocharged.com and they are a very reputable Porsche/Audi/Mercedes tuner. You can get their reflash tool (MyGenius) which will hold multiple tunes and let you reflash back to stock if you think the dealer can figure it out, most don't think they can. I do have the Fabspeed secondary Cat bypasses and they sound slightly better without the Cats but if there is a power increase it is negligible, definitely not up to claims.
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From: Texas Hill Country
I have a good deal of expertise in bikes but not in cars and less in P-cars. In the bike world, added hp from an aftermarket exhaust is rare to say the least. Many have less mass and almost all are noiser but more power as objectively measured on a dyno? As I said - very rare. Now if coupled with a complete ECU tune and other mods - then yes but stick an aftermarket can on a stocker and expect a 10% increase in hp? Never happen.
Thanks for the link. I'll have a look. The link I posted is, if I understand it right, newly available in the US and previously German only. I may have that wrong.
Thanks for the link. I'll have a look. The link I posted is, if I understand it right, newly available in the US and previously German only. I may have that wrong.
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From: In my exclusive Cayenne
If under warranty, remove it before service. Some will say that some legislation (Moss-Ferguson Act?) will protect you if you use non-OEM parts. Don't expect a good result if you retune, add a new chip and booster, and run NO2 while filling the gas tank with swamp water and chlorine bleach, then ask for warranty protection when you have a coolant pipe failure. Some of the 'anything goes' school actually post on this forum.
Bastards at work (all Italian broads) have this weird superstition of throwing coins in your new car for luck. My weird superstition is knowing I will crash and burn if I remove them, so I still have pennies in my ashtrays.
Bastards at work (all Italian broads) have this weird superstition of throwing coins in your new car for luck. My weird superstition is knowing I will crash and burn if I remove them, so I still have pennies in my ashtrays.
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From: Texas Hill Country
Magnusson-Moss. The dealer / OEM must show that the use of such parts were the cause of the failure or they must honor the warranty. Frex, I put in a chip and experience a failure of the coolant pipes. The dealer would be hard pressed to deny warranty but if, say, I threw a rod, I'd be SOL.
The point of this tuner box is that it's an easy 5 minutes in and 5 minutes out so the dealer should never see it unless I am overwhelmingly lazy.
The point of this tuner box is that it's an easy 5 minutes in and 5 minutes out so the dealer should never see it unless I am overwhelmingly lazy.
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From: In my exclusive Cayenne
The dealer / OEM must show that the use of such parts were the cause of the failure or they must honor the warranty.
PCNA has teams of lawyers sitting around not earning their retainer that would love to lose this case. You miss days of work as they work the system. Teams of techs with years of experience on their payroll willing to testify that excess heating of the engine from the aftermarket part blah, blah, blah. All because someone wanted NO2 in their P!g and thought they should still honor the warranty.
You might win, eventually, but why go through it?
And there have been whispers of rumors coming from the FEMA camps regarding warranty issues much stronger than "Hey, I got a non-OEM chip. Honor my warranty!"
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You use an extreme case to try to win the argument and it only muddies the water. In such a ridiculous case (anyone trying to force such a failure to be covered deserves their *** handed to them) of course the PCNA legal team will froth at the mouth.
In a more realistic case where you come in for something unrelated (let's use the sunroof not opening) and they try to refuse to cover it because you've added NOS, then PCNA will leave the dealer on their own as soon as you push back with a lawyer of your own. Sure its possible that you wired the trigger off the sunroof circuit and that fried the motor, but simple diagnostics will show that and any other possible connection is so tenuous and unlikely that they know it would cost them more to prove it in court than to fix the issue.
Mag-Moss isn't some magic "do what you want" card, but it does help protect you from scumbag dealers that try to take advantage of you. You have to accept the consequences of your actions (not trying to make them pay for what is your fault) and be willing to fight when you are in the right.
In a more realistic case where you come in for something unrelated (let's use the sunroof not opening) and they try to refuse to cover it because you've added NOS, then PCNA will leave the dealer on their own as soon as you push back with a lawyer of your own. Sure its possible that you wired the trigger off the sunroof circuit and that fried the motor, but simple diagnostics will show that and any other possible connection is so tenuous and unlikely that they know it would cost them more to prove it in court than to fix the issue.
Mag-Moss isn't some magic "do what you want" card, but it does help protect you from scumbag dealers that try to take advantage of you. You have to accept the consequences of your actions (not trying to make them pay for what is your fault) and be willing to fight when you are in the right.
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From: Texas Hill Country
Show it to whom? Mr. Dealer tech says "your warranty is voided." You show him a copy of the Mr. Peabody and Sherman Act, and he laughs at you. It's not as if you light up the Bat-signal and justice is served.
PCNA has teams of lawyers sitting around not earning their retainer that would love to lose this case. You miss days of work as they work the system. Teams of techs with years of experience on their payroll willing to testify that excess heating of the engine from the aftermarket part blah, blah, blah. All because someone wanted NO2 in their P!g and thought they should still honor the warranty.
You might win, eventually, but why go through it?
And there have been whispers of rumors coming from the FEMA camps regarding warranty issues much stronger than "Hey, I got a non-OEM chip. Honor my warranty!"
PCNA has teams of lawyers sitting around not earning their retainer that would love to lose this case. You miss days of work as they work the system. Teams of techs with years of experience on their payroll willing to testify that excess heating of the engine from the aftermarket part blah, blah, blah. All because someone wanted NO2 in their P!g and thought they should still honor the warranty.
You might win, eventually, but why go through it?
And there have been whispers of rumors coming from the FEMA camps regarding warranty issues much stronger than "Hey, I got a non-OEM chip. Honor my warranty!"
If it'd not have gone that way, small claims court exists to hear such cases.
As to the why go through it, the issue in this case was a substantial failure of a rear end which would have been costly to address.
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From: In my exclusive Cayenne
Did you mod the rear end of that BMW?
PCNA will go from the regional rep to Atlanta. An emergency meeting will be held so everyone can get a good laugh. You go to small claims, and they may have a high enough limit to cover the damages. PCNA may just pay to go away. Or, they show up with an expert witness with 30 years experience and multiple training seminars in Germany on what can happen if you chip one of these engines that will exceed design specs. You have a bucket of empty and some clipping from the ad in Car & Driver.
PCNA pays for some mistakes (996 IMS failures) and avoids other claims. I wouldn't expect them to start a new trend of engine damage that could be blamed on chipping with non-oem parts. Putting in a higher performance chip isn't like putting in spark plugs of similar design and quality.
Anyway, you say you can take it out in 5 minutes, so why would you even consider letting a tech see it?
EDIT: I agree with gnat. I was using hyberole to show that Mag-Moss isn't some magic bullet to do whatever you want. Chip your engine and have a master cylinder failure, you should be covered. I'd just never let them see the chip (or chip it) in the first place.
PCNA will go from the regional rep to Atlanta. An emergency meeting will be held so everyone can get a good laugh. You go to small claims, and they may have a high enough limit to cover the damages. PCNA may just pay to go away. Or, they show up with an expert witness with 30 years experience and multiple training seminars in Germany on what can happen if you chip one of these engines that will exceed design specs. You have a bucket of empty and some clipping from the ad in Car & Driver.
PCNA pays for some mistakes (996 IMS failures) and avoids other claims. I wouldn't expect them to start a new trend of engine damage that could be blamed on chipping with non-oem parts. Putting in a higher performance chip isn't like putting in spark plugs of similar design and quality.
Anyway, you say you can take it out in 5 minutes, so why would you even consider letting a tech see it?
EDIT: I agree with gnat. I was using hyberole to show that Mag-Moss isn't some magic bullet to do whatever you want. Chip your engine and have a master cylinder failure, you should be covered. I'd just never let them see the chip (or chip it) in the first place.
Last edited by Divot; Aug 25, 2013 at 12:40 PM.
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From: Texas Hill Country
1. If I get a tuner box, I will remove it before taking it to the dealer. This is why, if I do this, it'll be a tuner box rather than an ECU re-programming.
2. The discussion moved to M-M from the specifics of this tuner and my CTT. As to the BMW claim, it was years ago and I don't remember the reason for the dealer's initial denial but the mechanism for appeal is the same and I won the appeal.
As to the dealer / OEM bringing in experts, if you are right, you can overcome their testimony. If you are wrong, you deserve to lose anyway.
2. The discussion moved to M-M from the specifics of this tuner and my CTT. As to the BMW claim, it was years ago and I don't remember the reason for the dealer's initial denial but the mechanism for appeal is the same and I won the appeal.
As to the dealer / OEM bringing in experts, if you are right, you can overcome their testimony. If you are wrong, you deserve to lose anyway.
