When is the facelift due?
#63
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Bummer. There was talk of the Q5 diesel coming here and that now looks kaput. Makes no sense as a diesel for the Macan would sell just fine.
I'm a longtime VW owner and currently drive a Touareg TDI...almost every VW model sold here is offered with a diesel power train. My interest in the Cayenne diesel brought me to these forums and now I also have an interest in the Macan.
I hope you're wrong!
I'm a longtime VW owner and currently drive a Touareg TDI...almost every VW model sold here is offered with a diesel power train. My interest in the Cayenne diesel brought me to these forums and now I also have an interest in the Macan.
I hope you're wrong!
#64
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Bummer. There was talk of the Q5 diesel coming here and that now looks kaput. Makes no sense as a diesel for the Macan would sell just fine.
I'm a longtime VW owner and currently drive a Touareg TDI...almost every VW model sold here is offered with a diesel power train. My interest in the Cayenne diesel brought me to these forums and now I also have an interest in the Macan.
I hope you're wrong!
I'm a longtime VW owner and currently drive a Touareg TDI...almost every VW model sold here is offered with a diesel power train. My interest in the Cayenne diesel brought me to these forums and now I also have an interest in the Macan.
I hope you're wrong!
#66
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Hi,
As we all know, the Cayenne started as a 2004 model and the facelift came in 2008. So, first generation had 4 years with original model then facelift lasted 3 years,
Second generation started as a 2011 model. So, should we expect the facelift to happen in 2014 or 2015?
Cheers,
dMan
As we all know, the Cayenne started as a 2004 model and the facelift came in 2008. So, first generation had 4 years with original model then facelift lasted 3 years,
Second generation started as a 2011 model. So, should we expect the facelift to happen in 2014 or 2015?
Cheers,
dMan
The fact the there is a TTS and a GTS also shows that sales have slowed down. As these "special modles" are also a tool to boost interest in the current model.
Models that are making their sales goals may not get a redesign for many many years, if ever.
#67
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Face lifting a car is not something a manufacturer does on a set schedule. It's a tool to boost sales of an existing platform without having to redesign the entire car. When it arrives all depends on how well the "special interest modles" of the CTTS and GTS do.
The fact the there is a TTS and a GTS also shows that sales have slowed down. As these "special modles" are also a tool to boost interest in the current model.
Models that are making their sales goals may not get a redesign for many many years, if ever.
The fact the there is a TTS and a GTS also shows that sales have slowed down. As these "special modles" are also a tool to boost interest in the current model.
Models that are making their sales goals may not get a redesign for many many years, if ever.
I think the TTS and GTS attract a different buyer for the Cayenne, so I agree it could boost interest, but being such high end vehicles, how much do they really boost sales? I wonder if they created those versions this time around because they did so in the previous gen?
#68
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I can see your point, but what car doesn't go through a face lift? Do you have any data that the 958 is not meeting sales goals? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to better understand.
I think the TTS and GTS attract a different buyer for the Cayenne, so I agree it could boost interest, but being such high end vehicles, how much do they really boost sales? I wonder if they created those versions this time around because they did so in the previous gen?
I think the TTS and GTS attract a different buyer for the Cayenne, so I agree it could boost interest, but being such high end vehicles, how much do they really boost sales? I wonder if they created those versions this time around because they did so in the previous gen?
I'm constantly amazed that Porsche enthusiast seem to the Porsche the company is also just an enthusiast. They're not, they're a business! They won't go out and spend millions of dollars to facelift something unless there is potential profit at the end of it. Otherwise they would go out of business.
Its pretty obvious when you look at the first generation Cayenne and the production numbers. There are almost 2x as many 2004 Cayennes than there are 2005 and 2006 COMBINED! (which is also the reason people get they perception that the 04 is less reliable since just by the shear numbers shops see them 2x as often)
Sales dropped huge from 04 to 05 and then so bad in 06 that Porache took all of 07 off to facelift the model and try to stimulate interest with a GTS option. They tried to stimulate sales in 06 with a Turbo S and a "Titainium Edition" S. but it wasn't enough.
I don't think the GTS and tts attract a different buyer at all. It's just an icing on the cake to try to make an already interested buyer stick by giving them more, newer, exclusive options. What it does is take a buyer that might have bought a 2-3 year old Turbo and give them a reason to spend on a new model. The buyer that wants a 500hp Porsche SUV is not a totally different buyer that wants a 550hp Porshe SUV or a 405 HP version for a little less money.
#69
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Face lifting a car is not something a manufacturer does on a set schedule. It's a tool to boost sales of an existing platform without having to redesign the entire car. When it arrives all depends on how well the "special interest modles" of the CTTS and GTS do.
The fact the there is a TTS and a GTS also shows that sales have slowed down. As these "special modles" are also a tool to boost interest in the current model.
Models that are making their sales goals may not get a redesign for many many years, if ever.
#71
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False.
Why do you think they do a "refresh"? Its not for fun! Its because sales have slowed.
Many of their product cycles may onky last 7-8 years and need a refresh mid cycle to keep people interested.
Some models last longer, some shorter.
Facelifting a model is far from cheap. Probaly 10s of millions in redesign and retooling. Profitable businesses don't just do this for the hell of it. Some don't do it at all if they model sells well enough.
Take the Jeep Cherokee for example. They made it 10 years before having to give it a facelift then got another 5 years of sales out if it.
#73
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False.
Why do you think they do a "refresh"? Its not for fun! Its because sales have slowed.
Many of their product cycles may onky last 7-8 years and need a refresh mid cycle to keep people interested.
Some models last longer, some shorter.
Facelifting a model is far from cheap. Probaly 10s of millions in redesign and retooling. Profitable businesses don't just do this for the hell of it. Some don't do it at all if they model sells well enough.
Take the Jeep Cherokee for example. They made it 10 years before having to give it a facelift then got another 5 years of sales out if it.
Why do you think they do a "refresh"? Its not for fun! Its because sales have slowed.
Many of their product cycles may onky last 7-8 years and need a refresh mid cycle to keep people interested.
Some models last longer, some shorter.
Facelifting a model is far from cheap. Probaly 10s of millions in redesign and retooling. Profitable businesses don't just do this for the hell of it. Some don't do it at all if they model sells well enough.
Take the Jeep Cherokee for example. They made it 10 years before having to give it a facelift then got another 5 years of sales out if it.
The Jeep Cherokee is an outlier. It was destined to be replaced by the Grand Cherokee. Jeep realized that the Cherokee still had appeal and kept it on.
If you think that sagging sales have anything to do with it, let's look at two of the top selling cars in the US, Camry and Accord.
Accord:
Gen 6
First MY 1998
Refresh 2001
End of production MY 2002
Gen 7
First MY 2003
Refresh 2006
End of production MY 2007
Gen 8
First MY 2008
Refresh 2011
End of production MY 2012
Gen 9
First MY 2013.
Camry
XV30
First MY 2002
End of production MY 2006
XV40
First MY 2006
Refresh 2010
End of Production MY 2011
XV50
First MY 2011
BMW is the same way. 7 year model cycle with a 4/3 or a 3/4 split. My point - most automakers plan in refreshes. Two of the best selling cars in the US have a 6 year life split 4 and 2! It's not for lack of sales, it's to continue high sales. Honda and Toyota have no trouble moving Camrys and Accords. BMW does not have trouble moving 3's and 5's here.
They do not cost $10's of millions of dollars in re-tooling. They are planned in from the beginning and are becoming increasingly easy to do. Notice that they are usually from the lights down. If the lights change, they remain the same shape as to not disturb the trunk and hood. Really, it's most often a change to the lower fascia of the bumper and some jazzier lights. Honda usually changes the trunk around a bit to either add or subtract taillights. Look at the previous gen Honda Odyssey.
#74
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The Cherokee and the Grand Cherokee are completely different models. Their existance overlapped and the Cherokee was replaced by a new model called the Liberty.
This doesn't prove anything other than their refresh didn't stimulate enough sales.
![nono](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/nono.gif)
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
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Doesn't sound like any planned refreshes in there
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Um....duh, it's to stimulate sales. But if a model is kicked *** you push off the refresh as long as you can. Only an idiot would make changes to something that is selling well and take the risk of it not being popular after the change. You only take those risks once the data at starts to show a decline in the current product.
They do not cost $10's of millions of dollars in re-tooling. They are planned in from the beginning and are becoming increasingly easy to do. Notice that they are usually from the lights down. If the lights change, they remain the same shape as to not disturb the trunk and hood.
Lets look at what changed in the last Porsche Cayenne facelift.
-DFI MOTOR with more displacement. (Would that the below the headlights for you
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
-PASM
-All new brakes for all modles
-headlights
-tail lights
-front fenders
-front bumper
-front bumper structural components.
-rear bumper
-new upholstery options
-new nav options
-new wheels
-new suspension control modules, new spring rates for GTS
-new rear spoilers
-new mirrors
-special body cladding.
-6 speed manual in the GTS
-different axle gear ratios were used.
Again, that is probably 10 million in just wages for all the people that took just to design, test and build the face lifted parts for production.
#75
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Here are your Accord and Camary numbers.
Looks like everytime there was a decline or stagnation in sales they tried to stimulate it with a facelift. If the sales did not take off they presented the next model.
Doesn't look like just happy go lucky face lifting me me.
Looks like everytime there was a decline or stagnation in sales they tried to stimulate it with a facelift. If the sales did not take off they presented the next model.
Doesn't look like just happy go lucky face lifting me me.
Toyota Camry: 297,836
Honda Accord: 330,030
1994
Toyota Camry: 319,718
Honda Accord: 367,615
1995
Toyota Camry: 326,632
Honda Accord: 341,384
1996
Toyota Camry: 357,359
Honda Accord: 382,298
1997
Toyota Camry: 394,397
Honda Accord: 384,609
1998
Toyota Camry: 427,308
Honda Accord: 401,071
1999
Toyota Camry: 445,696
Honda Accord: 404,192
2000
Toyota Camry: 420,451
Honda Accord: 404,515
2001
Toyota Camry: 388,219
Honda Accord: 414,718
2002
Toyota Camry: 431,647
Honda Accord: 398,980
2003
Toyota Camry: 411,088
Honda Accord: 397,750
2004
Toyota Camry: 424,803
Honda Accord: 386,770
2005
Toyota Camry: 429,519
Honda Accord: 369,293
2006
Toyota Camry: 445,808
Honda Accord: 354,441
2007
Toyota Camry: 470,710
Honda Accord: 392,231
2008
Toyota Camry: 434,935
Honda Accord: 372,789
2009
Toyota Camry: 356,824
Honda Accord: 287,492
2010
Toyota Camry: 327,804
Honda Accord: 282,530
2011
Toyota Camry: 308,510
Honda Accord: 235,625
First seven months of 2012
Toyota Camry: 243,816
Honda Accord: 183,817
Sources: Honda, Toyota
Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/toyota-cam...#ixzz2OmluoUhQ
Follow us: @MotorTrend on Twitter | MotortrendMag on Facebook
Honda Accord: 330,030
1994
Toyota Camry: 319,718
Honda Accord: 367,615
1995
Toyota Camry: 326,632
Honda Accord: 341,384
1996
Toyota Camry: 357,359
Honda Accord: 382,298
1997
Toyota Camry: 394,397
Honda Accord: 384,609
1998
Toyota Camry: 427,308
Honda Accord: 401,071
1999
Toyota Camry: 445,696
Honda Accord: 404,192
2000
Toyota Camry: 420,451
Honda Accord: 404,515
2001
Toyota Camry: 388,219
Honda Accord: 414,718
2002
Toyota Camry: 431,647
Honda Accord: 398,980
2003
Toyota Camry: 411,088
Honda Accord: 397,750
2004
Toyota Camry: 424,803
Honda Accord: 386,770
2005
Toyota Camry: 429,519
Honda Accord: 369,293
2006
Toyota Camry: 445,808
Honda Accord: 354,441
2007
Toyota Camry: 470,710
Honda Accord: 392,231
2008
Toyota Camry: 434,935
Honda Accord: 372,789
2009
Toyota Camry: 356,824
Honda Accord: 287,492
2010
Toyota Camry: 327,804
Honda Accord: 282,530
2011
Toyota Camry: 308,510
Honda Accord: 235,625
First seven months of 2012
Toyota Camry: 243,816
Honda Accord: 183,817
Sources: Honda, Toyota
Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/toyota-cam...#ixzz2OmluoUhQ
Follow us: @MotorTrend on Twitter | MotortrendMag on Facebook