fincher

I like it. The Macan will be popular, too. Sign me up for a diesel Macan.

endless_corners

I doubt they will bring that here until the mid cycle refresh and then only in a 4cyl diesel.

fincher

Bummer. There was talk of the Q5 diesel coming here and that now looks kaput. Makes no sense as a diesel for the Macan would sell just fine.

I'm a longtime VW owner and currently drive a Touareg TDI...almost every VW model sold here is offered with a diesel power train. My interest in the Cayenne diesel brought me to these forums and now I also have an interest in the Macan.

I hope you're wrong!

Needsdecaf

Since when is the Q5 TDi kaput?

fincher

What I've been reading...was supposed to a 2013, then a 2014. Hope I'm wrong!

Cole

Face lifting a car is not something a manufacturer does on a set schedule. It's a tool to boost sales of an existing platform without having to redesign the entire car. When it arrives all depends on how well the "special interest modles" of the CTTS and GTS do.

The fact the there is a TTS and a GTS also shows that sales have slowed down. As these "special modles" are also a tool to boost interest in the current model.


Models that are making their sales goals may not get a redesign for many many years, if ever.

slwong23

I can see your point, but what car doesn't go through a face lift? Do you have any data that the 958 is not meeting sales goals? Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to better understand.

I think the TTS and GTS attract a different buyer for the Cayenne, so I agree it could boost interest, but being such high end vehicles, how much do they really boost sales? I wonder if they created those versions this time around because they did so in the previous gen?

Cole

I'm constantly amazed that Porsche enthusiast seem to the Porsche the company is also just an enthusiast. They're not, they're a business! They won't go out and spend millions of dollars to facelift something unless there is potential profit at the end of it. Otherwise they would go out of business.

Its pretty obvious when you look at the first generation Cayenne and the production numbers. There are almost 2x as many 2004 Cayennes than there are 2005 and 2006 COMBINED! (which is also the reason people get they perception that the 04 is less reliable since just by the shear numbers shops see them 2x as often)

Sales dropped huge from 04 to 05 and then so bad in 06 that Porache took all of 07 off to facelift the model and try to stimulate interest with a GTS option. They tried to stimulate sales in 06 with a Turbo S and a "Titainium Edition" S. but it wasn't enough.

I don't think the GTS and tts attract a different buyer at all. It's just an icing on the cake to try to make an already interested buyer stick by giving them more, newer, exclusive options. What it does is take a buyer that might have bought a 2-3 year old Turbo and give them a reason to spend on a new model. The buyer that wants a 500hp Porsche SUV is not a totally different buyer that wants a 550hp Porshe SUV or a 405 HP version for a little less money.

Needsdecaf

Absolutely untrue. The majority of the manufacturers are on the same schedule...7-8 year total model life with 3-4 year mid-cycle refresh and final year special editions to boost sales.

endless_corners

The cadence with some Japanese brands is more like 5-6 years.

Cole

False.

Why do you think they do a "refresh"? Its not for fun! Its because sales have slowed.

Many of their product cycles may onky last 7-8 years and need a refresh mid cycle to keep people interested.

Some models last longer, some shorter.

Facelifting a model is far from cheap. Probaly 10s of millions in redesign and retooling. Profitable businesses don't just do this for the hell of it. Some don't do it at all if they model sells well enough.

Take the Jeep Cherokee for example. They made it 10 years before having to give it a facelift then got another 5 years of sales out if it.

endless_corners

we need to get along y'all

Needsdecaf

If you want to believe that, then fine. You are incorrect. I'm not trying to prove a point, just educate.

The Jeep Cherokee is an outlier. It was destined to be replaced by the Grand Cherokee. Jeep realized that the Cherokee still had appeal and kept it on.

If you think that sagging sales have anything to do with it, let's look at two of the top selling cars in the US, Camry and Accord.

Accord:

Gen 6
First MY 1998
Refresh 2001
End of production MY 2002

Gen 7
First MY 2003
Refresh 2006
End of production MY 2007

Gen 8
First MY 2008
Refresh 2011
End of production MY 2012

Gen 9
First MY 2013.


Camry

XV30
First MY 2002
End of production MY 2006

XV40
First MY 2006
Refresh 2010
End of Production MY 2011

XV50
First MY 2011

BMW is the same way. 7 year model cycle with a 4/3 or a 3/4 split. My point - most automakers plan in refreshes. Two of the best selling cars in the US have a 6 year life split 4 and 2! It's not for lack of sales, it's to continue high sales. Honda and Toyota have no trouble moving Camrys and Accords. BMW does not have trouble moving 3's and 5's here.

They do not cost $10's of millions of dollars in re-tooling. They are planned in from the beginning and are becoming increasingly easy to do. Notice that they are usually from the lights down. If the lights change, they remain the same shape as to not disturb the trunk and hood. Really, it's most often a change to the lower fascia of the bumper and some jazzier lights. Honda usually changes the trunk around a bit to either add or subtract taillights. Look at the previous gen Honda Odyssey.

Cole

Wtf are you talking about?

The Cherokee and the Grand Cherokee are completely different models. Their existance overlapped and the Cherokee was replaced by a new model called the Liberty.



This doesn't prove anything other than their refresh didn't stimulate enough sales.













Right like the E36 M3 that lasted 9 years with no refresh or the e46 M3 that lasted 6 years with no refresh. or the 6 year run of the z3 with no facelift.


Doesn't sound like any planned refreshes in there or seven year product cycles. Sounds like they Leo them as long as they an make money on the model.

Um....duh, it's to stimulate sales. But if a model is kicked *** you push off the refresh as long as you can. Only an idiot would make changes to something that is selling well and take the risk of it not being popular after the change. You only take those risks once the data at starts to show a decline in the current product.


Now your just talking jibberish. You have to pay designers, engineers, testers, marketing people, website people, printers, sales trainers, machinists, etc etc. it's probably 10 million bucks in payroll alone.

Lets look at what changed in the last Porsche Cayenne facelift.

-DFI MOTOR with more displacement. (Would that the below the headlights for you)
-PASM
-All new brakes for all modles
-headlights
-tail lights
-front fenders
-front bumper
-front bumper structural components.
-rear bumper
-new upholstery options
-new nav options
-new wheels
-new suspension control modules, new spring rates for GTS
-new rear spoilers
-new mirrors
-special body cladding.
-6 speed manual in the GTS
-different axle gear ratios were used.


Again, that is probably 10 million in just wages for all the people that took just to design, test and build the face lifted parts for production.

Cole

Here are your Accord and Camary numbers.

Looks like everytime there was a decline or stagnation in sales they tried to stimulate it with a facelift. If the sales did not take off they presented the next model.

Doesn't look like just happy go lucky face lifting me me.