txhansen

Any feedback from those better educated would be greatly appreciated. I have been torn between a BMW X5 5.0 or a Cayenne and have settled on the Cayenne. ( I think!!). I have driven both the Hybrid S and Diesel and the diesel seemed faster even though the data suggests it is not that close.

I believe there are some real deals on Hybrid S cars that are on the ground at the moment but they still end up a bit more than a diesel in terms of price. The complexity of the hybrid makes me nervous as well as the long term depreciation question is in my mind. Diesels tend to be pretty solid mechanically and much more simple design and I presume for reliable than a hybrid S.

For those of you with real life experiece what are your thoughts on this?

grohgreg

All of the above PLUS I think you're going to find markedly better resale out of the diesel as well. Can't support this with statistics, but I'm pretty sure folks tend to shy away from used hybrids due to battery replacement costs. I know I do.

//greg//

steve_Cayenne

My $0.02 (and thats all its worth),

I would not touch one, unless I received a MASSIVE discount. It simply does not deliver any remarkable fuel economy in real life (Highway 24 vs 22MPG for the S) and that is if you drive it just right. It is also slower than the cheaper S, and will not have the signature V8 growl. The cheaper S also has a better 4wd system (on road and off road). I have also read the power delivery, and breaking feel awkward due to the combustion/electric systems kicking in and out. If you are an environmentalist, plenty of studies show that the battery manufacturing and replacement will quickly wipe out any carbon footprint savings.

Should the Diesel S come to America, it will be cheaper and faster, and better real life economy than the Hybrid. If the regular Diesel felt right to you, take the 29MPG, $15K savings, and more reliable and proven technology. A diesel should last nicely through 5 and 10 years. Hybrid? By definition you are at the mercy of NiMh chemical entropy, or would atrophy be a better term! Not sure what happens to resale when you try and sell your 6 year old Porsche with a $10K? "battery warning" on the display.

There are some horror stories on the forums from some Hybrid owners, that pale in comparison to the whining about clock problems, and burning a quart of oil between changes on the other models. I also notice whenever looking at the new/used stock at the dealership, there seem to be a fair amount of Hybrids (both Panamera & Cayenne) ... I wonder what happened in those cases?

I actually look foreword to plug in Hybrids (when they work out the kinks after a generation), where I could drive to work and back every day on my cheap Hydro electricity that creates no pollution.

Meanwhile having an overly complicated and expensive system to store some regenerative energy, simply does not make much sense to me.

Disclaimer: I have never driven a Hybrid.

P.S. Here are some nice pictures of the Cayenne Hybrid technology:

jerry joseph

Great pics-best hybrid ones I have seen-thanks
Pretty cool to get a good look at the workings of it

XR4Tim

The big plus about the Hybrid is not the highway consumption, but the city consumption (where the electric portion is used most). Also, the zero emissions when the combustion engine is not being used (for those who care about emissions).
The biggest drawback, in my opinion, is that the E-machine (hybrid module) is used to start the combustion engine instead of a conventional starter. This means that if there is a hybrid failure, you will not be able to start the combustion engine and drive the vehicle. Another drawback is that the high-voltage battery is inefficient below 50ºF, so if you live in a cold climate and drive short distances, you won't see much of the intended benefit.
I went to the technical training for the Cayenne S Hybrid, and it is a well-designed machine, but it is also very complex. I have not driven a diesel Cayenne, so that's about all I can say here.

RESP

From someone who owns a hybrid: (okay, it is a Lexus RX400h )
We use the hybrid in town, never for long trips.
The fuel mileage in the city is awesome!
We use the Cayenne V-6 for our long drives.
The fuel mileage on the highway is excellent!

Have driven the hybrid for 4 years with 73,000 km of good use. The electric motors (assist on the fronts, exclusive electric in the rears) give great off the line acceleration, excellent all weather driving (including deep snow, ice, etc - the usual in the norther prairies), and some very good utility (have carried quite a bit of stuff).
Haven't seen the doom & gloom of the "must replace the battery" screams from people who haven't actually owned a hybrid, let alone kept one for more than a year. The hybrid performs to the same level as when we bought it.

Down side when driving: there is some acceleration (positive and negative) when the engine shuts down and restarts while driving. Most noticeable on downhill sections when decelerating and braking lightly.

As to "Zero" emissions plug ins - what fuel source does your electric utility use to generate the power, and what is that carbon footprint? What is the loss rate of your electric utility's transmission grid? Check out those numbers before you get fooled into "low cost" energy from your wall socket.

I have to agree the hybrid isn't the best option in very low temperature scenarios. Our hybrid goes from heated garage to heated garage in the winter, keeping the battery pack nice and warm.

steve_Cayenne

In my case Hydro (water turbines). We do the damage up front (flood the land, and pay off the First-Nations people). Then incremental energy is "clean". Huge grid losses, but those losses do not spew burnt fuel into the air, just flows more water.

txhansen

Thanks for the comments as most are what I am thinking. For hybrids on the lot they seem to be willing to discount pretty highly. I live in the south so cold not a big worry but super high heat is.

Jon H

I test drove both, preferred the diesel and ordered one.

stronbl

I test drove the three mentioned here so far - Cayenne Diesel, Cayenne S, and Cayenne S Hybrid. I was also able to test drive the Cayenne S and S Hybrid at the Porsche World Road show on a limited track event, mainly straight line acceleration and braking. Both were fine, IMO the S was more responsive than the S Hybrid. In the end I ordered a Diesel but my reasons may be different. I mainly needed it as a vehicle to tow the 997 and secondarily as a long haul driver so torque and highway economy were high scores for the diesel. I was very happy with the standing start acceleration (due to the high torque) of the diesel, which finalized my decisions to purchase it. It's on the boat coming across the seas now so I do not have real life experience, only the test drive experiences; nonetheless no second guesses yet.

TGED

We almost bought the diesel but found out that 4-zone climate control is available in other places and not in U S or Canada, ordered a base V6 instead.

Cole

I think you guys are missing one fun point. The supercharged 3.0L Audi motor in the S Hybrid is the same used in the Audsi that are making 525HP with just a tune, pulley and exhaust!

Just saying

endless_corners

Diesels always pass the "butt dyno" test...
People drive torque as they say.

dochusar

I just want to through in my two cents. I have owned two Cayenne base V6's, subpar mileage, but decent for a truck. Even with the 8 speed transmission the motor was choppy and did not respond well. Loved the power of the S. too bad Porsche did not use their 3.6 liter six (as in the Panamera), but the VW based V6! I test drove the diesel and was amazed at the torque and performance of the engine. Also Porsche has taken all of the diesel smell away. I could not tell between driving a gas engine, compared mostly to the V8 in the S. the cost of diesel fuel and the ride convinced me to order the diesel which I will have by Thanksgiving.
I would love to have the power of the S or the Turbo, but I guess the Cayenne will be my daily driver, and for fun and performance, I can always take my 911 for a spin.

GregGebhardt

I liked the diesel and was surprised by the power and torque but the Cayenne S was still the most exciting!