mpm '95 C4

[quote]Originally posted by Christian Stewart:
<strong>Free speech and all that, done with respect to other's opinions - an ocean apart - it's what the internet's all about - chill man.... </strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks, I've always felt the debate's the thing BTW, check you rennlist mail.

Anir

John,

I'm with Christian on this one. I find mpm to be courteous, rational, and thoughtful in his posts. I think he fosters an interesting debate. Until the Cayenne is in the hands of owners, what type of topics do you expect to read on this forum? It's not like anyone has been able to do maintenance on one, or race it, or upgrade it, or comment on Porsche's racing efforts, etc.

Also, at least mpm sticks to his position, which is more than you can say for a lot of folks nowadays (Al Gore comes to mind).

John H. in DC Area

John M., I'll underscore Christian's and Anir's comments about mpm's posting on this forum.

I don't share his views on all topics, but I certainly find all of mpm's posts to be alternately witty, thoughtful, informative, irreverent, civil and insightful. They provide significant color to the discussions on this board. How dry would (will) this board be if it consists only of "what size hex rench do I need to adjust the spare tire carrier on the rear hatch?" posts? Isn't it okay to talk about macro as well as micro issues related to to the Cayenne?

Also, it seems somewhat less than civil and a little too ad hominem (dispite your praise of mpm's posts on other forums) to urge him to put a cork in it rather than perhaps to make at least one post attempting to refute mpm's ideas on the issues. You can always agree to disagree if either of you is not persuaded by the other's reasoning. I have this vision of you screaming "SHUT UP" at the top of your lungs like Sam Kennison <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Also, for those folks who are increasingly frustrated with the number of perceived anti-Cayenne posts (and I disagree with that characterization, because most of the "anti-Cayenne" posts seem to me to be more nuanced than mere reflexive condemnations of the Cayenne), why not match those posts (or even post once) by explaining with similar fervor why the Cayenne and Porsche are categorically beyond critical analysis? I have yet to hear that argument, although Christian has come closest to making it

Admittedly, many of us are chewing and re-chewing on the same Cayenne issues over and over. But this is a "discussion board," not a "praise only board" or a "Cayenne technical info only board," what's the harm in having colorful, if a little redundant, discussions about the Cayenne?

At any rate, best regards,

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Mike in Chi

Let's see...

"all of mpm's posts to be alternately witty, thoughtful, informative, irreverent, civil and insightful"

"courteous, rational, thoughtful..."

"politely, rationally, eloquently..."

I know:

MPM FOR MAYOR OF CAYENNEVILLE
(It's just down the (paved) road from Truckville)

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> to you

Mike

Anir

[quote]Originally posted by Mike in Chi:
<strong>Let's see...MPM FOR MAYOR OF CAYENNEVILLE
(It's just down the (paved) road from Truckville)...Mike</strong><hr></blockquote>

Mike,

I'll second the nomination. He may be a little hesitant at first, but in time, he'll grow to love the job.

ked

[quote]Originally posted by John Murray:
<strong>What I dont like is how much mpm95 exerts SO MUCH time and effort... you gotta stop expending so much energy... It is too much. I have tried to stay quiet about it...
I will also say that I have seen many other posts about other topics and they have been very informative and great reads. please I cant stand to read another anti-Cayenne post from you, enough is enough.</strong><hr></blockquote>

John, I think I've figured it out - you're his Dad, aren't you? You sure sound like it, & God knows MPM needs guidance & support now & then. MPM, listen to your Dad... don't necessarily obey him, but at least listen. We know how tight (yet tough) Boston families can be. And of course, the Holidays are very stressful. Let us know whenever we can help out, 'cause we know that beneath it all, everyone in the family loves Porsches.

mpm '95 C4

[quote]Originally posted by Mike in Chi:
<strong>MPM FOR MAYOR OF CAYENNEVILLE
(It's just down the (paved) road from Truckville) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah and I'd be the first mayor impeached because I tried to rename it "Sportscartown" pushed the town into an elite racing program, as the un-elected city controllers rebuffed me alternatively (and sarcastically) tried "Pfishtown", and when the ugly mob of city accountants showed up with tar and feathers, hopped into my trustee 100K mile daily driver 993 and sped off to a welcomed sports car sanctuary

Really, all the kind remarks are welcomed and appreciated. Even Mr. Davis, who is the ying to my yang version of sarcasm. (BTW, my dear pop passed over 4 years ago (1 day prior to Dr. Ferry) and he was an estate kind'a guy , and I am a proud Philadelphian living among the historically "warm and pleasant" Bostonian's).

But this thread kind'a looks like how the debate around here is going to end up - unfortunately. As DC John and Christian have said, the threads here have been insightful, emotional, fact filled (and somewhat exaggerated), speculative, humorous, enlightening, entertaining and all-in-all a great pro/con debate. Something that I look forward to each day, as a break from the real world "slings and arrows" that we all face in these turbulent times.

Unfortunately also - because I don't think the con side of this business decision making and product execution debate (which is real and will go on for at least two years, as we see the sales impact of the P-fish play out, and what that spells for Porsche - and the dealer network) will no longer be welcomed here, or perhaps even tolerated by Adrian and the other moderators. (Somehow though I don't think many P-fish buyers will be Rennlist members, or even know of - or even care about - the existence of Rennlist ). But, nonetheless, it is probably the appropriate use of this forum (albeit somewhat less entertaining then it's been over the last year).

So, as "mayor", I'd like to propose that the pro/con debate continues in its current professional and respectable (and somewhat irreverent) manor, until the P-fish hits the showrooms. After that, I hope that the debate will continue in the Off Topic forum (I like the idea of Porsche Business forum ). And the Rennlist users who buy (or will it primarily be leased? Which brings up another interesting Porsche financial impact debate ) the P-fish, can discuss what to do about the spare tires.

Regards <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> ...

Mike in Chi

Mr Mayor

I like the thought of a Porsche Business forum.
Very Cool Idea. (John D, are you listening?) Adrian's Euro info and insights alone would be sufficient to keep it active.

Also, your Honor, I fully expect to be appointed an Alderman of Cayenneville. After all, I rigged election (being from Chicago helps).

I figure an Alderman can make lots of money behind the scenes here, and isn't money what the Cayenne is all about?

Respectfully,

A concerned citizen.

mpm '95 C4

[quote]Originally posted by Mike in Chi:
<strong>I figure an Alderman can make lots of money behind the scenes here, and isn't money what the Cayenne is all about?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

So it's about making money 'eh? I know the old adage is "you have to spend money to make money." But, somehow I think market timing and that other one about "size matters" was underestimated <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

BTW, as is the fashion in your fine city, the "mayor" is nothing compared to the Alderman, so yes since you "appointed" me, you of course hold all the "back room" power and control all the payola

John Murray

This has turned out WAY better than I thought as soon as I pressed the 'Add Reply' button. MPM95, I do enjoy your discussions as stated above and do not want you to change your opinion. Mayor? Sure, I will vote for it. I just felt the need to ask to stop kicking my dog(at least thats how I felt at the time). I am a Porsche salesman and I hear Cayenne bad-mouthing ALL THE TIME. Lucky you mpm95, you were my leaning post. I also cant stand it when I hear people bad-mouthing the Boxster when they have never driven one, another excellent creation from Porsche.

You, Mr. mpm95, have friends here. I did not mean to offend and also enjoy the debate. Thanks for not totally flaming me.....(yet)

I have never owned an air-cooled Porsche.....


I have had no less than two 928's......(fire suit on)


The 996 is the ultimate and best looking Porsche ever produced......


Sure am glad they make Chocolate, Vannila and Strawberry.....


Good Luck all.

John H. in DC Area

Nice post, John M. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />


[quote]Originally posted by John Murray:
I am a Porsche salesman and I hear Cayenne bad-mouthing ALL THE TIME.<hr></blockquote>

Honest question for you ... Given that you hear Cayenne bashing all the time, are you concerned about the Cayenne or do you think most of the bashing is based upon misinformation? I'll understand if you need to avoid answering, given that you sell p-cars, but I'd sure love to hear your answer.

[quote]Sure am glad they make Chocolate, Vannila and Strawberry.....<hr></blockquote>

Me too, particularly strawberry!

mpm '95 C4

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by John Murray:
<strong>T I am a Porsche salesman and I hear Cayenne bad-mouthing ALL THE TIME. Lucky you mpm95, you were my leaning post. I also cant stand it when I hear people bad-mouthing the Boxster when they have never driven one, another excellent creation from Porsche.

Sure am glad they make Chocolate, Vannila and Strawberry.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">John M good to know here is a Porsche salesman in our ranks. I wish you all the success in '03. No offense taken, I've got pretty think skin, and I do get a little annimated as well

It's killing me seeing all these cross-overs hit the market right now. It's the next (or current trend) and your going to hear all about 'how much space' they have, and how 'car like' they feel on the road, and 'who really takes their SUVs off road anyway?'

One of my earliest points is that Porsche could have been cutting edge instead of 'me too'. Perhaps the 5th (or 6th, 5th being the new 928) P-car built off this platform will be just that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

John Murray

John H in DC,

I am not worried about Cayenne sales. The people who dont like it, wont buy it. The people who like it, will buy it and hopefully have a great ownership experience. I know at this dealer we have 26 pre sold. We estimate to sell approx 100 Cayennes per year.

And in case you all didnt know, Boxster sales are DEAD in the water and Carrera sales are still strong.

I CANT WAIT FOR THE CAYENNE, it will boost sales for me anyways.....

I think it looks good, we all know it performs great, and hey, it has a crest on it!!

Good Luck all.