Future of Used 2011 Cayenne
11-26-2011, 11:16 PM
#17
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sure, because i am adding erroneous material to the post, versus answering a question about demand and supply.
also, other people have chimed in with their "5 second search" replies with vehicles "available for purchase" that aren't even currently available....
those who have actually searched to buy a used 2011 can attest to the bait and switch antics of the dealers, especially in socal.... not only bait and switch, but bait+add a premium and switch......
i apologize in advance that i speculate and have fun when buying vehicles, and would encourage others to do the same (i'm not taking all my thoughts for myself, but instead offering them out to help others.... im sure everyone on the forum would love to profit off a car purchase, or maybe im wrong and people love losing money)
also, other people have chimed in with their "5 second search" replies with vehicles "available for purchase" that aren't even currently available....
those who have actually searched to buy a used 2011 can attest to the bait and switch antics of the dealers, especially in socal.... not only bait and switch, but bait+add a premium and switch......
i apologize in advance that i speculate and have fun when buying vehicles, and would encourage others to do the same (i'm not taking all my thoughts for myself, but instead offering them out to help others.... im sure everyone on the forum would love to profit off a car purchase, or maybe im wrong and people love losing money)
11-26-2011, 11:27 PM
#19
Nordschleife Master
the 958 porsche cayenne's online are very confusing to navigate between, there are the high msrp models that are not commanding a premium or a demand (because someone could order one for cheaper and just wait).. there are the manual trans models which come up but are not easy to sell.. and then there are the ones people want (55-60k) but most of those are fake listings... i have helped numerous friends try and find cars and had the dealer run the list of available cars and it never matches up with any listings... if you have time and would like to see for yourself, call 5 dealers offering those vehicles for sale and say you would like to make payment today and pick the vehicle up tomorrow and listen to their responses... i have heard it all... and it's a bunch of crap... they simply want people to order some cars and fill up their allocations,
good friend of mine had to pay 8k over on his high optioned v6 in los angeles just months ago because it was impossible to find anything on the market instantly available.
i'm not being "sketchy" or trying to profit on this forum, this is clearly shown when i bought/sold my 2011... the whole time i kept everyone in the loop and showed them they could make money if they ordered the car properly... i did not even post the 2011 here but i did make jokes about "it being available" which were clearly jokes because was never followed up with any contact from myself or even a price..... if i had 50 horses in the race i clearly would not want competition, but im just having fun and if 20 people on the forum bought v6 cayenne's for the sole reason to flip in 6 months it honestly still wouldn't affect me given the insane demand.. so im encouraging others to buy smart and take full advantage of what we have available to us as consumers. i also did the same when i bought/sold my 997.2 carrera and will do the same when i buy/sell my new 991 carrera....
most people consider a done deal to lose money on a car, which is why leases are so prevalent (a locked in loss)... i say why lock in losses and pay money for something you have to hand back when you can make money driving something you love..
regret of my life however is not buying a superleggera in 09' when they were going for 115k!!!!
11-26-2011, 11:34 PM
#20
Nordschleife Master
the only pain in my *** (literally) is when I had to drive my Exige daily for 4 months in between my 997.2 and the Cayenne because of me selling the 997.2 too soon and the Cayenne being delayed... I tried to time it better between the '11 and '12 but still had about a month of daily driving the exige because of a delay.... in the future i'm pre ordering vehicles in advance anticipating a delay (hence me ordering my 991 the day i picked up the 12' cayenne)
the 991 will be interesting however because i have been toying with the idea of selling the Exige.... so i'll have to spend some time thinking of a great sidekick for the 991.
11-26-2011, 11:41 PM
#21
Nordschleife Master
a common reply, but i for one believe that once i pay for something in full and have ownership that i can do as i please with that item... usually the only people who complain are the ones that do not spend the time to do research and therefore do not sell the item for a profit.....
end of the day, i took a risk spending my money and could take a loss or a profit... i understand PCNA not wanting people to export cars because of legality reasons and for that reason I did not and will not sell a car bound for export... i actually took considerably less money selling my 2011 to a private buyer (no intent of export and not on any export lists) to make sure that my dealer and PCNA would not be upset/in trouble.
using my suggestions, everyone on the forum could easily profit thousands of dollars simply filling the void left between the current supply and the current demand (again, they must own the vehicle for 6 months to make sure the dealer and PCNA are pleased.... and must have the financial ability to have 50-55k out of pocket for the same 6 months).
nobody is breaking any laws, no dealers are getting in trouble, no export laws are being broken.... it's simply a gap being filled between supply and demand and more so a matter of people being willing to spend extra money for being impatient and wanting instant gratification on their purchase versus "us" waiting 4-6 months for the vehicle to arrive and then another 6 months to sell it.
end of the day, i took a risk spending my money and could take a loss or a profit... i understand PCNA not wanting people to export cars because of legality reasons and for that reason I did not and will not sell a car bound for export... i actually took considerably less money selling my 2011 to a private buyer (no intent of export and not on any export lists) to make sure that my dealer and PCNA would not be upset/in trouble.
using my suggestions, everyone on the forum could easily profit thousands of dollars simply filling the void left between the current supply and the current demand (again, they must own the vehicle for 6 months to make sure the dealer and PCNA are pleased.... and must have the financial ability to have 50-55k out of pocket for the same 6 months).
nobody is breaking any laws, no dealers are getting in trouble, no export laws are being broken.... it's simply a gap being filled between supply and demand and more so a matter of people being willing to spend extra money for being impatient and wanting instant gratification on their purchase versus "us" waiting 4-6 months for the vehicle to arrive and then another 6 months to sell it.
11-27-2011, 12:34 AM
#23
unfortunately the facepalm is on you, the demand far exceeds the supply right now and will continue to for at least another year or so....
yes they produce many vehicles but as long as the vehicles command a giant premium abroad, their will be demand for the cheaper US vehicles, couple this with the low supply that makes it stateside versus those other markets and we're even better off...
the S and Turbo models DO fall into your statement but not the V6, it's ok tho, please stick to your thought process and encourage people to keep their cars or buy S models and so forth and i'll gladly pocket another 10k on my next sale :-D
not all v6 models however, if you go crazy with the options then it's in the same boat as a v8 model.... right now the cheapest "available" 2012 on the market is 70k... available as in immediate delivery... all signs point to an amazing profit to me ;-)
yes they produce many vehicles but as long as the vehicles command a giant premium abroad, their will be demand for the cheaper US vehicles, couple this with the low supply that makes it stateside versus those other markets and we're even better off...
the S and Turbo models DO fall into your statement but not the V6, it's ok tho, please stick to your thought process and encourage people to keep their cars or buy S models and so forth and i'll gladly pocket another 10k on my next sale :-D
not all v6 models however, if you go crazy with the options then it's in the same boat as a v8 model.... right now the cheapest "available" 2012 on the market is 70k... available as in immediate delivery... all signs point to an amazing profit to me ;-)
11-27-2011, 12:42 AM
#24
Nordschleife Master
oh well,
11-27-2011, 12:58 AM
#26
laugh all you want, i'll just keep doing my thing and just keep you guys out of the loop in the future, i was just trying to share my experience with others so they could also yield a return on their vehicle purchases... but i understand most people like to add superfluous options, lease the vehicle to create a no risk sale for PCNA and buy the extended warranty and also do not negotiate on purchases thinking the dealer knows best in all cases...
oh well,
oh well,
Do you drive the car during the 6 months?
Why again would someone pay over sticker for an '11 when it's almost '12?
From my understanding, there's about $20 profit in a new P-car, $10k for porsche and $10k for the dealer. How are you getting it for below sticker while everyone else is paying over sticker?
Ok, so let's say you buy the car for $5K BELOW sticker, aren't you still paying tax on it?
And the MOST important question is: How do you know EXACTLY which cars will be selling for OVER sticker 6 months down the road??
I just bought a used Spyder, one of only 825 in the US, production ceased a month before I bought it. I assume the 1st guy paid sticker. I paid $5K below the dealer's asking price (which was lower than sticker). The car is 6 months old. Neither the dealer nor the first buyer sold this car for over sticker.
Last edited by medtech; 11-27-2011 at 01:21 AM.
11-27-2011, 02:00 AM
#27
Nordschleife Master
things that dont bring their value second hand, i.e..... 4k nav, 4k air susp, 2k headlights, things that add up to making a V8 a better choice monetarily for someone who is frugal and looking for the best car they can buy for a certain amount of money..
end of the day, i have nothing to hide and just been trying to show people the gains available to them... again these options aren't really worth the risk to those who finance or lease the vehicle (leasing would eliminate any gain as u never own the vehicle), financing could make sense if a large profit was at stake, but the interest and other BS costs that add up very quickly make it a slim margin and also if your bet didn't pay off you would be stuck with debt and payments for some time.
it's not a "hedge fund's dream" profit wise, but at the end of the day i justify the risk because i would buy the vehicle anyways... but doing some research helps me save money and make swapping vehicles easier...
key note at the end of the day is to also never be "Stuck" on a dealer... for example i do not buy ANY cars in florida... they wanted 6k extra on my 997 cab, 11k extra on my 09 PDK, 6k extra on my 11' cayenne and 5k extra on my 12' cayenne... I found a dealer up north that does less business but is a great dealer and loves any and all business they get..... i have found that CA/NY/FL dealers are the worst to deal with because people in that market will pay anything, which makes negotiating much harder.
also, i have never gotten any perks or freebies from FL dealers (yes i have bought vehicles in florida in the past before i got sick of getting screwed), now i buy out of state and they put $125 of gas in the tank instead of 20$... they pick me up at the airport.... they have all the paperwork ready without bull**** so i sign and drive... they line everything up so its a 10 minute stop instead of a 5 hour ordeal like it is in florida.
I'm not laughing at you. If there's a consistently repeatable method of making money flipping cars every 6months...I definitely want to know everything about it. But you seem to leave out some very important details about how to do this.
Do you drive the car during the 6 months? yes, put 5k on the 2011
Why again would someone pay over sticker for an '11 when it's almost '12? 12's were out when i sold my 11', if the gentleman went that day to dealer to order a 12' they wanted a premium and car was 6 months out... so instant gratification won him over obviously... to him they were the same vehicle, and they are besides the clock/locking buttons.
From my understanding, there's about $20 profit in a new P-car, $10k for porsche and $10k for the dealer. How are you getting it for below sticker while everyone else is paying over sticker? i have a pre determined discount setup with my dealer because of the volume that friends/family and myself buy from them... we do about 4MM collectively with the dealer annually... my discount is their cost+a fixed amount of profit for them, also i give them an additional $500 for any paperwork woes and sign of good faith.. (this is not necessary however as you can still make a good profit without a discount)
Ok, so let's say you buy the car for $5K BELOW sticker, aren't you still paying tax on it? realistically its about 3-4k below sticker (depending on MSRP) but in florida as well as many other states, if you have a trade in you do not get taxed on the trade in amount....... also every and any dealer has the ability to "broker" a sale which then counts as a trade in (sell the car privately, offer the buyer the "security" of paying the dealer directly... you sign the title over to the dealer and they do the paperwork and sell the vehicle to the buyer (he pays the exact same amount he would otherwise but directly to the dealer and the dealer does all the paperwork/title hassle))
And the MOST important question is: How do you know EXACTLY which cars will be selling for OVER sticker 6 months down the road?? you dont know without a doubt (which is why i said their is risk involved) but you look at the market and the demand and also take into account that people are naturally cheap.... when i bought my 09 PDK brand new, I knew that buying a base was more ideal as at the end of the day there will always be more possible buyers on a cheaper vehicle... despite the model designation.. this also comes into play on options.... hard to find someone that will justify 4k for navigation versus putting 4k in his pocket... so choosing options needs to be thought out (i splurged on ordering blue interior for 12' and will eat probably about 2k off my gain because of this choice/desire).... i have speculated in the past and not jumped and regret it (when 08 superleggera's were 115k, and now 145-160k... when CLK Black series were only a year old and 75k (now 3 years later still 75k), and a few others like when the 4.7L Vantage V8 was all the talk and the 4.3L's were in the high 50's low 60's).... one good speculation i made was my Lotus Exige.... the new ones are almost 40% heavier so the demand has been strong for the 07 models that tip the scales under 1 ton...
I just bought a used Spyder, one of only 825 in the US, production ceased a month before I bought it. I assume the 1st guy paid sticker. I paid $5K below the dealer's asking price (which was lower than sticker). The car is 6 months old. Neither the dealer nor the first buyer sold this car for over sticker. I am not really familiar on the Spyder's pricing and market as i havent really spent any time watching it, when they came out they were selling for over list here locally (tampa florida) but i see them used sitting in showroom's lately... obviously those first people got screwed a little but not sure about down the line.... my theory of "profiting or breaking even from car purchases" basically run's on the principal of buying the cheapest model of the nicest car they make... as i said above, people are naturally cheap and if they see they can upgrade to a dream car for a nominal difference in price they will.... i.e. from a toureag to a cayenne, or from a 3/6 series to a carrera, so on and so forth... which is why the v8 and turbo model cayenne's have never had strong resale (expensive for most, not an easy jump up) but the v6 does (easy jump from normal vehicles (domestics and mid range SUV's)....the Exige doesnt apply to this rule but was a passion purchase and i negotiated 8k off the sellers asking price because he wanted a cash sale quickly to pay for home repairs.. so it made it worth the risk and i should net a good 12k on the sale of it in the spring.
Do you drive the car during the 6 months? yes, put 5k on the 2011
Why again would someone pay over sticker for an '11 when it's almost '12? 12's were out when i sold my 11', if the gentleman went that day to dealer to order a 12' they wanted a premium and car was 6 months out... so instant gratification won him over obviously... to him they were the same vehicle, and they are besides the clock/locking buttons.
From my understanding, there's about $20 profit in a new P-car, $10k for porsche and $10k for the dealer. How are you getting it for below sticker while everyone else is paying over sticker? i have a pre determined discount setup with my dealer because of the volume that friends/family and myself buy from them... we do about 4MM collectively with the dealer annually... my discount is their cost+a fixed amount of profit for them, also i give them an additional $500 for any paperwork woes and sign of good faith.. (this is not necessary however as you can still make a good profit without a discount)
Ok, so let's say you buy the car for $5K BELOW sticker, aren't you still paying tax on it? realistically its about 3-4k below sticker (depending on MSRP) but in florida as well as many other states, if you have a trade in you do not get taxed on the trade in amount....... also every and any dealer has the ability to "broker" a sale which then counts as a trade in (sell the car privately, offer the buyer the "security" of paying the dealer directly... you sign the title over to the dealer and they do the paperwork and sell the vehicle to the buyer (he pays the exact same amount he would otherwise but directly to the dealer and the dealer does all the paperwork/title hassle))
And the MOST important question is: How do you know EXACTLY which cars will be selling for OVER sticker 6 months down the road?? you dont know without a doubt (which is why i said their is risk involved) but you look at the market and the demand and also take into account that people are naturally cheap.... when i bought my 09 PDK brand new, I knew that buying a base was more ideal as at the end of the day there will always be more possible buyers on a cheaper vehicle... despite the model designation.. this also comes into play on options.... hard to find someone that will justify 4k for navigation versus putting 4k in his pocket... so choosing options needs to be thought out (i splurged on ordering blue interior for 12' and will eat probably about 2k off my gain because of this choice/desire).... i have speculated in the past and not jumped and regret it (when 08 superleggera's were 115k, and now 145-160k... when CLK Black series were only a year old and 75k (now 3 years later still 75k), and a few others like when the 4.7L Vantage V8 was all the talk and the 4.3L's were in the high 50's low 60's).... one good speculation i made was my Lotus Exige.... the new ones are almost 40% heavier so the demand has been strong for the 07 models that tip the scales under 1 ton...
I just bought a used Spyder, one of only 825 in the US, production ceased a month before I bought it. I assume the 1st guy paid sticker. I paid $5K below the dealer's asking price (which was lower than sticker). The car is 6 months old. Neither the dealer nor the first buyer sold this car for over sticker. I am not really familiar on the Spyder's pricing and market as i havent really spent any time watching it, when they came out they were selling for over list here locally (tampa florida) but i see them used sitting in showroom's lately... obviously those first people got screwed a little but not sure about down the line.... my theory of "profiting or breaking even from car purchases" basically run's on the principal of buying the cheapest model of the nicest car they make... as i said above, people are naturally cheap and if they see they can upgrade to a dream car for a nominal difference in price they will.... i.e. from a toureag to a cayenne, or from a 3/6 series to a carrera, so on and so forth... which is why the v8 and turbo model cayenne's have never had strong resale (expensive for most, not an easy jump up) but the v6 does (easy jump from normal vehicles (domestics and mid range SUV's)....the Exige doesnt apply to this rule but was a passion purchase and i negotiated 8k off the sellers asking price because he wanted a cash sale quickly to pay for home repairs.. so it made it worth the risk and i should net a good 12k on the sale of it in the spring.
end of the day, i have nothing to hide and just been trying to show people the gains available to them... again these options aren't really worth the risk to those who finance or lease the vehicle (leasing would eliminate any gain as u never own the vehicle), financing could make sense if a large profit was at stake, but the interest and other BS costs that add up very quickly make it a slim margin and also if your bet didn't pay off you would be stuck with debt and payments for some time.
it's not a "hedge fund's dream" profit wise, but at the end of the day i justify the risk because i would buy the vehicle anyways... but doing some research helps me save money and make swapping vehicles easier...
key note at the end of the day is to also never be "Stuck" on a dealer... for example i do not buy ANY cars in florida... they wanted 6k extra on my 997 cab, 11k extra on my 09 PDK, 6k extra on my 11' cayenne and 5k extra on my 12' cayenne... I found a dealer up north that does less business but is a great dealer and loves any and all business they get..... i have found that CA/NY/FL dealers are the worst to deal with because people in that market will pay anything, which makes negotiating much harder.
also, i have never gotten any perks or freebies from FL dealers (yes i have bought vehicles in florida in the past before i got sick of getting screwed), now i buy out of state and they put $125 of gas in the tank instead of 20$... they pick me up at the airport.... they have all the paperwork ready without bull**** so i sign and drive... they line everything up so its a 10 minute stop instead of a 5 hour ordeal like it is in florida.
11-27-2011, 01:38 PM
#28
"Cash is King" + "Configure the car for the Masses" + "The Greater Idiot Theory" = Potential Profit
My problem is I don't have that kind of cash, and I don't know where to find a "Greater Idiot" than me when it comes to cars.
11-27-2011, 02:17 PM
#29
""Ok, so let's say you buy the car for $5K BELOW sticker, aren't you still paying tax on it?""
Not all states have personal property tax. Many people who make large personal property purchases do so under an LLC in a state with no property tax.
Very nice loophole for those of us who like to change our expensive toys frequently.
There are many lawyers that will be glad to help you with this for $1500 upfront and $125/yr.
If this is a new concept to you I suggest you search google for Montana and RV's . Lots of details available
Not all states have personal property tax. Many people who make large personal property purchases do so under an LLC in a state with no property tax.
Very nice loophole for those of us who like to change our expensive toys frequently.
There are many lawyers that will be glad to help you with this for $1500 upfront and $125/yr.
If this is a new concept to you I suggest you search google for Montana and RV's . Lots of details available
