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Thank you for getting back to me, I appreciate the insight I do have one other thing to ask, did you ever find a way to override the 4k rev limit in neutral / Park? I seen the video of you popping some flames and love it, but I'm just happy if it pops 🤣
We didn't explore that because there just wasn't a need for it.
This. Those crackles and pops are unburned fuel exploding in the exhaust. Not sure how or why this became a thing - it's the sound of an improperly tuned engine and that extra unburned fuel that passed through the combustion chamber contributes to oil viscosity reduction from fuel contamination and bore scoring.
It's a thing because the explosions build drive pressure in the exhaust which gets you more boost. I think you are taking this a bit out of context. Anyone who wishes to have these types of mods probably isn't worried much about oil dilution. Bore scoring is from improper clearances to begin with. Blame Porsche. Convince me otherwise. In my case I run e85. It contaminates the oil a lot. I change the oil..... a lot. As I said, this type of anti-lag program doesn't work well with an automatic with a lower stall converter. It's more intended for a manual with no load. When you apply a load to the engine via a converter building boost isn't a problem. The ignition cut portion of the program works well as an RPM hold/ psuedo launch control. Need more boost? Set the ign cut rpm higher. To a point with other factors such as stall speed coming into play, it works up to stall speed, which is why I suggested a two step box in lieu of ecu coding. The ign cut also lowers the tq quite a bit which allows the brakes to hold on the line.
I haven't updated this thread in quite a while so here is-
The best I have run so far with a slipping trans and slow shifts on 2-3 and 3-4 is 11.20 @ 132 in the quarter according to my Dragy. That's on e85 and ~ 25lbs of boost. ~3.45 0-60, 1.90 60ft time, and 190mph+ doesn't take long. This is on summer tires 275-45-20 all 4. I ended up lifting the heads and had a few oil leaks from the timing cover. I tore it down and found hairline cracks eminating from the spark plug holes to the valve seats on 3-4 holes on one head. I got a fresh set of castings and went thru the heads and found my exhaust guides were also well worn. Pay to play.
While I was in there I decided to O-ring the block with .040 copper wire to use in conjunction with the stock MLS gasket. I had a custom valve body built with some blueprinting and increased line pressure. I also put in a TCU from an 08 GTS. Everything looked great in the bottom end so I slapped her back together. During this time I also put stiffer springs in the external gates so that I could turn up the boost some more. I was @ ~ 90% duty cycle before to get the ~25psi. Everything felt great including the trans which was quite different. Long story short I got a bit heavy footed on pump gas before the tuner had a chance to send me a new flash with lower DC. I ended up over-boosting and getting into some heavy detonation. I cracked the block in the lifter valley. I've been very busy with life but have a new donor block here to get sleeved and build a new short block. I should have her up and running soon. This project is far from dead and I'm excited to see how the trans handles the shifts with the custom valve body. I think with the MPH that I had before, eliminating the slipping on shifts, refining the launch program. and turning up the boost some more I can get deep in the 10's.
I haven't updated this thread in quite a while so here is-
The best I have run so far with a slipping trans and slow shifts on 2-3 and 3-4 is 11.20 @ 132 in the quarter according to my Dragy. That's on e85 and ~ 25lbs of boost. ~3.45 0-60, 1.90 60ft time, and 190mph+ doesn't take long. This is on summer tires 275-45-20 all 4. I ended up lifting the heads and had a few oil leaks from the timing cover. I tore it down and found hairline cracks eminating from the spark plug holes to the valve seats on 3-4 holes on one head. I got a fresh set of castings and went thru the heads and found my exhaust guides were also well worn. Pay to play.
While I was in there I decided to O-ring the block with .040 copper wire to use in conjunction with the stock MLS gasket. I had a custom valve body built with some blueprinting and increased line pressure. I also put in a TCU from an 08 GTS. Everything looked great in the bottom end so I slapped her back together. During this time I also put stiffer springs in the external gates so that I could turn up the boost some more. I was @ ~ 90% duty cycle before to get the ~25psi. Everything felt great including the trans which was quite different. Long story short I got a bit heavy footed on pump gas before the tuner had a chance to send me a new flash with lower DC. I ended up over-boosting and getting into some heavy detonation. I cracked the block in the lifter valley. I've been very busy with life but have a new donor block here to get sleeved and build a new short block. I should have her up and running soon. This project is far from dead and I'm excited to see how the trans handles the shifts with the custom valve body. I think with the MPH that I had before, eliminating the slipping on shifts, refining the launch program. and turning up the boost some more I can get deep in the 10's.
Quick teaser-
When I get this thread going again, it's gonna happen fast. Right now I have a lot of details left to tie in and the downpipes kicked my ***. I tell you what, VW AG really knows how to pack 20 gallons of sh** in a 5 gallon bucket. Plus I have to crawl under the Pig like a heathen to work because I don't have a lift. That really screws with perception but I am really happy with how everything has turned out so far. Darn near textbook. Im taking my time not to cut any corners.
"Shortcuts are pay cuts"
This is gorgeous. I know this is years and years old but I'm taking my time reading this entire build thread. I'm impressed. Can't wait to see/hear/read what the final numbers ended up being if you ever dyno'd. Haven't gotten that far lol
I had intended to take some time and update all the in-betweens here but my graphics card crashed on my computer and I needed to get a laptop that was more compatible with using in the car. So, recovering those hard drives has been on the back burner. Promise all the details of this build will be disclosed when I have the time!
I have around 5k miles on the PIG now and I couldn't be happier. Engine is super mega healthy and burns no oil. I pulled about 10 ml out of my Radium AOS at my last oil change when I switched from dino break in oil with a ZDDP additive to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-40. Next oil change will be the first to send off for a UOA.
Spool is ridiculous for a 4.6 litre v8 with twin 60lb/min turbos. I honestly don't think a shot of NOS will be needed. Wastegate control is perfection and I have ZERO exhaust leaks. No issues with the manifolds!
Fuel system is complete consisting of:
*Goodridge 825 teflon lines
-8 feed
-6 return
Elimination of the stock in flange regulator
Elimination of the stock in flange filter
Obviously all fittings are now AN
Aeromotive external FPR
Weldon 10 micron SS external in-line filter
Flex fuel sensor in the return line (The Plex Pro EBC displays the Ethanol content.)
AEM fuel pressure sensor fed into the Plex EBC ( Will set a boost cut for safeguard)
-8an SS bung welded to the stock fuel rail
I have installed a Walbro 450 in the primary pump basket.
The factory design of the in tank guts and scavenging is unchanged with the exception of the above to reduce pumping losses through the factory regulator and filter.
I'm all about taking it slow and having safeguards in place concerning fuel delivery, pressure. Coupled with the safeguards built into the Motronic 7.1.1 ecu and a good tuner I think we r in good hands.
I'm literally a set of ID1050x Injectors and a few tunes away from having some solid numbers/results. Will tune for pump gas first and when that limit is reached it will be my daily tune.
After that its all about the E.
Every time I have an update I say a few weeks/ months but this time I think 2 months max before I can hit you guys with the shiz.
Stay tuned, it's about to get real.
What did you use for tuning/software? And which Walbro 450 did you use? I know there's a few different part numbers...
I don't think the E had anything to do with it. I experimented with a range of 20-30% and of course the Cayenne loves the octane. I ran my car hard and the exhaust side was just plain wore out. My results were similar to yours.
I purposely searched for a tuner that would tune for e85.
I picked up a Plex Pro boost controller. It has a couple cool features that will help with tuning and the E. I can hook up a flex fuel content sensor to it and display that percentage in real time. I can also hook up an AEM fuel pressure sensor @ the fuel rail and monitor that. The only problem I see with E in the Cayenne , other than the normal things that a user needs to be aware of, is effects on the fuel pumps themselves. Time will tell.
I probably missed it, but did you run E85 compatible fuel pumps i.e. DW, AEM, Walbro? And injectors? Do you need to do anything with the high pressure fuel pump or it's ok?
This is gorgeous. I know this is years and years old but I'm taking my time reading this entire build thread. I'm impressed. Can't wait to see/hear/read what the final numbers ended up being if you ever dyno'd. Haven't gotten that far lol
I wound up with something more adequate.
Originally Posted by ElSpoon957
What did you use for tuning/software? And which Walbro 450 did you use? I know there's a few different part numbers...
I didn't tune it but software we used wouldn't apply to the 4.8 as it uses a Siemens? ECU. I started with a compatible 450 and a stock pump and later stepped up to a Walbro 535lph pump in each basket.
Originally Posted by ElSpoon957
I probably missed it, but did you run E85 compatible fuel pumps i.e. DW, AEM, Walbro? And injectors? Do you need to do anything with the high pressure fuel pump or it's ok?
id1050x injectors and the 4.5 is port FI so no HPFP.
I didn't tune it but software we used wouldn't apply to the 4.8 as it uses a Siemens? ECU. I started with a compatible 450 and a stock pump and later stepped up to a Walbro 535lph pump in each basket.
Right on. You don't happen to know the part numbers by chance, do you? I know they might be different for my 957, but I'm still just curious. Did you have to do any customization or modification of the baskets or anything to accommodate the Walbros? Or was it a pretty simple swap for the factory pumps?
Originally Posted by J'sWorld
id1050x injectors and the 4.5 is port FI so no HPFP.
Also right on, yeah I know the 957+ guys have that lovely DI crap gunking up our intake manifolds lol. I reached out to ID and they said they don't carry a single DI injector lol. I don't know that I'm prepared to go this far but I know BMW 335 guys actually ADD port injection to their DI motors when making more power etc. My buddy has a 500whp 335, I'll have to ask what he did. I do plan on running water/meth, so that'll help a bit. I've been drooling over Renaissance Man's build over at 6speed. His and your build are top-notch amazing.
Right on. You don't happen to know the part numbers by chance, do you? I know they might be different for my 957, but I'm still just curious. Did you have to do any customization or modification of the baskets or anything to accommodate the Walbros? Or was it a pretty simple swap for the factory pumps?
Also right on, yeah I know the 957+ guys have that lovely DI crap gunking up our intake manifolds lol. I reached out to ID and they said they don't carry a single DI injector lol. I don't know that I'm prepared to go this far but I know BMW 335 guys actually ADD port injection to their DI motors when making more power etc. My buddy has a 500whp 335, I'll have to ask what he did. I do plan on running water/meth, so that'll help a bit. I've been drooling over Renaissance Man's build over at 6speed. His and your build are top-notch amazing.
They are Hellcat pumps. They make one with a check valve and one without. The pumps slide right into the baskets and I did modify the plumbing as the Cayenne fuel system is quite unique. I never published any of the mod's I made to the fuel system. Again, 4.8 being DI, lift pumps are only part of the equation. With the intake manifold being plastic you would have to figure out adding injector bungs to the runners. I'm not aware of any solution for plastic. Overall I think you could get ~700 hp out of bolt on mods using the stock HPFP just as Renn man's and I think for the 4.8 platform that's a sweet spot for many reasons.
They are Hellcat pumps. They make one with a check valve and one without. The pumps slide right into the baskets and I did modify the plumbing as the Cayenne fuel system is quite unique. I never published any of the mod's I made to the fuel system. Again, 4.8 being DI, lift pumps are only part of the equation. With the intake manifold being plastic you would have to figure out adding injector bungs to the runners. I'm not aware of any solution for plastic. Overall I think you could get ~700 hp out of bolt-on mods using the stock HPFP just as Renn man's and I think for the 4.8 platform that's a sweet spot for many reasons.
Yea that elusive 700hp range (at the crank) doesn't seem completely unattainable, but I'll just be happy to get between 500-600whp. I don't look at crank numbers. Then again, I say that now and we all know how being bitten by the boost bug goes! Lol soon it'll be "Oh idk, ya know this 600whp feels so slow"
The BMW guys add port injection to their stock plastic intake manifold. I know it can be done, but I'm not there yet, nor do I know if I'll ever be lol
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I did see on Renn Man's build or somewhere about that E81 power package Porsche offered as an option? That'd be cool to get my hands on that intake manifold for sure. I also don't know if that IPD Plenum mod is worth $800 lol I might look into making my own. I'm not sure though.
I also thought about buying a used or new factory throttle body and sending it off for a professional port & polish service. I could have them increase the diameter to whatever the intake manifold inlet is... I haven't measured what the stock vs the E81 package offers or the IPD plenum inner diameter. I'm pretty confident going this route would be cheaper than whatever throttle body is part of that E81 package, if it's in there at all.
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Last edited by ElSpoon958; 03-10-2022 at 12:03 AM.
No, I'm using two 535. The manifold you pictured is using a meth nozzle, big difference between that and a fuel injector. FWIW I ran 11.20 @ 131 with a 1.9 60ft @ 5500lbs and a slipping trans on a stock 955 76mm throttle body and intake so IMO that mod is pointless. That was on e85 and ~25psi. The math put me around 850-900 chp. Here's me running a friends FBO Rs3, he makes ~600chp with a dct and 2k lbs weight difference. The throttle body and intake aren't holding the platform back. Turbo's and IAT's are.
No, I'm using two 535. The manifold you pictured is using a meth nozzle, big difference between that and a fuel injector. FWIW I ran 11.20 @ 131 with a 1.9 60ft @ 5500lbs and a slipping trans on a stock 955 76mm throttle body and intake so IMO that mod is pointless. That was on e85 and ~25psi. The math put me around 850-900 chp. Here's me running a friends FBO Rs3, he makes ~600chp with a dct and 2k lbs weight difference. The throttle body and intake aren't holding the platform back. Turbo's and IAT's are.
Hot damn brosama, that was a great video. Not really sure who the winner is or should be lol I'd love to see you two at the track from a dig. You seemed to get him good on the first pass. Yeah I'm super impressed with your build, it's awesome and you really did a great job with everything and documenting what you could. Not bad running 11s with a 5000+lb "pig" as they refer to it. The only comparison I can even think of are big diesel trucks that weigh even more than our Cayennes that run 10s when heavily modded. But that's a whole different ballgame and those babies are pushing probably 2000ft lbs tq lol.
So the stock TB is 76mm, good to know if I ever want to get it ported slightly larger. I must have missed it in your build that you went full E85 or am just drawing a blank ATM. I've been reading so many different Cayenne threads that's all I see when I close my eyes anymore lol. What year was your friend's RS3? I know I've seen some stupid fast S3s out there in the world.
If turbos and IATs are the bottlenecks at some point, that's good to know too. On another thread either here or 6speed, someone was showing me some options for our stock 957 turbos to be rebuilt/modified if so desired. Like with new internals and a billet wheel, that'd be awesome if one wanted to still keep the stock turbos. And for IATs, did you ever consider running a 50/50 water meth setup? I think Renn Man ran rull methanol, which I personally wouldn't do but that was cool to see. Having the water can help cool things down slightly.
PS: I didn't know Walbro made both a 525 and a 535 lol seems silly, they're so close in sizing/flow. I will go back and look, but did you have any writeup or pics taken of when you installed the two 535s and how you modified the baskets or whatever?
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Last edited by ElSpoon958; 03-10-2022 at 09:58 PM.
Hot damn brosama, that was a great video. Not really sure who the winner is or should be lol I'd love to see you two at the track from a dig. You seemed to get him good on the first pass. Yeah I'm super impressed with your build, it's awesome and you really did a great job with everything and documenting what you could. Not bad running 11s with a 5000+lb "pig" as they refer to it. The only comparison I can even think of are big diesel trucks that weigh even more than our Cayennes that run 10s when heavily modded. But that's a whole different ballgame and those babies are pushing probably 2000ft lbs tq lol.
So the stock TB is 76mm, good to know if I ever want to get it ported slightly larger. I must have missed it in your build that you went full E85 or am just drawing a blank ATM. I've been reading so many different Cayenne threads that's all I see when I close my eyes anymore lol. What year was your friend's RS3? I know I've seen some stupid fast S3s out there in the world.
If turbos and IATs are the bottlenecks at some point, that's good to know too. On another thread either here or 6speed, someone was showing me some options for our stock 957 turbos to be rebuilt/modified if so desired. Like with new internals and a billet wheel, that'd be awesome if one wanted to still keep the stock turbos. And for IATs, did you ever consider running a 50/50 water meth setup? I think Renn Man ran rull methanol, which I personally wouldn't do but that was cool to see. Having the water can help cool things down slightly.
PS: I didn't know Walbro made both a 525 and a 535 lol seems silly, they're so close in sizing/flow. I will go back and look, but did you have any writeup or pics taken of when you installed the two 535s and how you modified the baskets or whatever?
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Difference between 525/535 is a check valve. I never shared anything on how I set up the fuel system. I use inline check valves in the tank plumbing so I didn,t need them built into the pumps
Originally Posted by AirShox EU
I am currently working on a 957 4.8 TT. What about TCU and valvebody upgrade? Anything proven?
Nothing for the TCU. I had a custom VB built but I'm not able to report on it yet.
09-08-2021, 09:54 PM
Stay tuned, it's about to get real.
