Boxster - Haters and Doubters - don't read
03-19-2004, 03:16 PM
#121
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i've learnt to accept the boxster as a Porsche over time as as I am with the Cayenne. I think that will never happen since boxster atleast is a sports car to begin with. Looking forward to the boxster coupe!
03-19-2004, 03:43 PM
#122
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That is in fact the most links I have seen in a post, very impressive.
Anyway I wonder if the 986 coupe will be less expensive? Maybe they'll make a clubsport model, who knows. Way back when, the stripped out clubsport models were actually cheaper than the standard spec cars, because they were cheaper to make. Doubt that will be the case with future sport models - look at the GT3, they had to change almost everything to make it a great track car, almost nothing mechanical was from the standard 996. Different engine, transmission, brakes, suspension/etc, (even different body seam welds!). Not like the 3.2, where the standard Carrera was just lightened and had stiffer torsion bars and bushings. If the current cars were built to those same standards, all that would be required for a "clubsport" model would be to remove the luxury stuff. But that's not the case anymore.
Anyway, all your "quality" ratings that you keep mentioning, those are cars used only on the street - daily driving to the grocery store, etc. I'm quite confident that a boxster can handle street driving, I never said they were falling apart on the street - my point was, they're not made to take track use.
Anyway I wonder if the 986 coupe will be less expensive? Maybe they'll make a clubsport model, who knows. Way back when, the stripped out clubsport models were actually cheaper than the standard spec cars, because they were cheaper to make. Doubt that will be the case with future sport models - look at the GT3, they had to change almost everything to make it a great track car, almost nothing mechanical was from the standard 996. Different engine, transmission, brakes, suspension/etc, (even different body seam welds!). Not like the 3.2, where the standard Carrera was just lightened and had stiffer torsion bars and bushings. If the current cars were built to those same standards, all that would be required for a "clubsport" model would be to remove the luxury stuff. But that's not the case anymore.
Anyway, all your "quality" ratings that you keep mentioning, those are cars used only on the street - daily driving to the grocery store, etc. I'm quite confident that a boxster can handle street driving, I never said they were falling apart on the street - my point was, they're not made to take track use.
03-19-2004, 04:51 PM
#123
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Originally posted by Daytona24
… those are cars used … daily driving to the grocery store, etc. I'm quite confident… my point was, they're not made to take track use.
… those are cars used … daily driving to the grocery store, etc. I'm quite confident… my point was, they're not made to take track use.
Oh and, trust me - I had about 80 other posts of yours to choose from….
Now, for the rest of you – no one tell Tony N., the thousands of folks on PPBB - in addition to almost all the folks on the Boxster Racing Forum - that “Daytona24” knows more then they do, either individually or collectively as a group – I wouldn’t want a Flame War in the Rennlist Forums….. ‘Course – personally I wouldn’t know anything about driving a Boxster on both the street and the track either here or in Europe – or instructing students in their Boxsters..??…
Oh – and Daytona24 – the closest I could come for second-place “notable – quotable” post from you - was this one (again - it was a difficult decision which post of yours I should choose):
Originally posted by Daytona24
… My intention was not to **** anyone off, or start an argument…..
… My intention was not to **** anyone off, or start an argument…..
You really are pretty funny….
Thanks for the chuckles…
03-20-2004, 03:37 AM
#124
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Originally posted by Daytona24
Yeah the Boxster only has three problems, the way I see it...
One, Porsche decided to change their entire philosophy so they could build their 986/996s for huge profit and with low quality (by Porsche standards - slam the door on a 993 and then do the same on a boxster/996, you'll see what I mean)
Two, they are so grossly underpowered that they're not worth the money. (I know Porsches aren't about the "numbers" and "horsepower," but when you have a Honda Accord V6 blowing your doors off in your brand new Porsche, there's something seriously wrong)
Three, I can open my sunroof at 60mph on the highway, flick a penny out the top and 9 times out of 10 I'll hit a Boxster. I guess that means it's a sales smash hit - but when your kid's 1st grade teacher drives one, along with your neighbor's daughter and that gay hairdresser at Fantastic Sams, it kind of loses a bit of that old mystique.
A fun car though, no doubt - but the best roadster out there today? I'd say that would be the M3 for the same price.
Just my humble (and correct) opinion.
Yeah the Boxster only has three problems, the way I see it...
One, Porsche decided to change their entire philosophy so they could build their 986/996s for huge profit and with low quality (by Porsche standards - slam the door on a 993 and then do the same on a boxster/996, you'll see what I mean)
Two, they are so grossly underpowered that they're not worth the money. (I know Porsches aren't about the "numbers" and "horsepower," but when you have a Honda Accord V6 blowing your doors off in your brand new Porsche, there's something seriously wrong)
Three, I can open my sunroof at 60mph on the highway, flick a penny out the top and 9 times out of 10 I'll hit a Boxster. I guess that means it's a sales smash hit - but when your kid's 1st grade teacher drives one, along with your neighbor's daughter and that gay hairdresser at Fantastic Sams, it kind of loses a bit of that old mystique.
A fun car though, no doubt - but the best roadster out there today? I'd say that would be the M3 for the same price.
Just my humble (and correct) opinion.
By the way, grossly under powered? Didn't the 80's 911 TURBO only have 280 horsepower? What was the standard 911? 230 or 240?
03-20-2004, 03:42 AM
#125
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Originally posted by agentpennypacker
First, Mid engine design superior? Perhaps if you don't know how to drive! There's a reasons that Boxsters aren't raced.
First, Mid engine design superior? Perhaps if you don't know how to drive! There's a reasons that Boxsters aren't raced.
03-20-2004, 03:59 AM
#126
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Originally posted by agentpennypacker
Great cars, but aren't the true sports cars Porsche used to make (by sports cars I mean a car that is made to participate in track events, like Ferrari).
Great cars, but aren't the true sports cars Porsche used to make (by sports cars I mean a car that is made to participate in track events, like Ferrari).
Warranty 2 years unlimited mileage for ferrari vs 4 years 50k for Porsche - do you know ANYONE that will put more than 50k on a ferrari in 2 years?
Scheduled maintenance? Through 50k miles your Porsche will need a couple of filters, oil changes, maybe brakes and tires. That's about it. Your Ferrari? Plan to spend $3000-7000 on 30k scheduled maintenace depending on which model you have and who you talk to. Many of the ferraris required the engine to come out for "scheduled maintenance." What kind of *** backwards retarded design is that for a street car (even if it is designed with the track in mind)? Have you ever payed any attention to the reliability of Ferraris? If you want to bitch and moan about build quality reliability and that sort of thing Ferrari ought be your prime target short of some old fiat or jaguar! You must be out of your freaking mind bitching about Porsche quality and then telling people they ought to switch to Ferrari! Have you ever driven a Ferrari with even 30k miles on it? They feel like they are about to fall apart. A Porsche (from any era) can still feel like a new car up to 100k and beyond. Just don't even think about saying Porsche needs to go in the direction of Ferrari - that would only make things worse
Maybe Ferrari and their warranty seems track friendly on the surface but when they rip you off they way they do on "scheduled maintenance" that costs enough to put a new engine in other cars it's not really much of a warranty. Consider the cost of ownership of even the bottom end Ferrari, the 360 at ~$150k to buy new, plus say $7000-8000 of "scheduled maintenance" to put 30k miles on it. You're looking at $160,000. For that price you could buy a GT3 and a couple of spare engines even if Porsche does screw you on the warranty and still not spend anymore AND go faster. Ferrari makes no sense other than looking good, sounding good, and being exclusive.
03-20-2004, 04:12 AM
#127
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Originally posted by agentpennypacker
I owned a 951 S that had about 385 rear wheel HP (depending on what I dialed in). I loved it, probably more than my 986S. Sure, it wasn't a 911, but a FAST HIGH QUALITY PORSCHE.
I owned a 951 S that had about 385 rear wheel HP (depending on what I dialed in). I loved it, probably more than my 986S. Sure, it wasn't a 911, but a FAST HIGH QUALITY PORSCHE.
Real high quality Porsche. Do you remember how you needed to change the timing belt every 30k MILES?!? And change the water pump as preventitive maintenance so you didn't destroy your engine? Are those the makings of a high quality car? Porsche has had quality problems in the past. Some of the things you say are on the right track but alot of it just makes one say, "damn, he must be really stupid."
03-20-2004, 04:22 AM
#128
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Originally posted by Daytona24
[B]OK, obviously you guys have way too much time on your hands if you're actually looking up the name. Greg is not MY name you F-ing idiots, it's a friend of mine and I use his name on Rennlist. So you can leave him out of it. I'm not using my name for obvious reasons, I don't want my name being dragged around these boards. Although he does find it quite amusing. (BTW, Do you think I would waste dime one on a rennlist membership?)
[B]OK, obviously you guys have way too much time on your hands if you're actually looking up the name. Greg is not MY name you F-ing idiots, it's a friend of mine and I use his name on Rennlist. So you can leave him out of it. I'm not using my name for obvious reasons, I don't want my name being dragged around these boards. Although he does find it quite amusing. (BTW, Do you think I would waste dime one on a rennlist membership?)
in another thread you repeatedly chastised Vampyre for "hiding behind" his screen name while proudly bringing attention to how you signed all your posts. Now you turn around and say that's not your name but a friends name? So instead of hiding behind a screen name you hide behind a friends name? You sound like a great friend, a real coward, and someone who is totally 100% full of ****.
03-20-2004, 04:37 AM
#129
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Originally posted by Daytona24
That being said, with all the misquotes and half-truths you guys have been spreading around with your responses, I'm starting to think there are some John F. Kerry supporters in our midst. Vampyre, you stike me as a card-carrying socialist...
That being said, with all the misquotes and half-truths you guys have been spreading around with your responses, I'm starting to think there are some John F. Kerry supporters in our midst. Vampyre, you stike me as a card-carrying socialist...
03-20-2004, 10:36 AM
#130
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Yes, we have turned this thread right around. Those two kids needed to be schooled. As for the list administrator calling Daytona24 an Idiot, I have to agree.
Now that Daytona24 is labeled an idiot by the admins of rennlist I think that might wake him up, and maybe he will see how stupid 99% of this posts were.
Now that Daytona24 is labeled an idiot by the admins of rennlist I think that might wake him up, and maybe he will see how stupid 99% of this posts were.
03-20-2004, 12:03 PM
#131
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I think he's far more dangerous than your average idiot. He is rather a pseudo-intellectual. If you carefull read his posts not paying attention to content but rather the vocabulary, grammar, and structure it would appear that someone of far more intelligence (and more years) than he actually has wrote it. It's not until you carefully consider the content that you realize what you're dealing with. You will find these sort of dangerous people as politicians and advisors to politicians most often. Let's hope he doesn't get there.
03-20-2004, 02:58 PM
#132
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Originally posted by brh986
Maybe Ferrari and their warranty seems track friendly on the surface but when they rip you off they way they do on "scheduled maintenance" that costs enough to put a new engine in other cars it's not really much of a warranty. Consider the cost of ownership of even the bottom end Ferrari, the 360 at ~$150k to buy new, plus say $7000-8000 of "scheduled maintenance" to put 30k miles on it. You're looking at $160,000. For that price you could buy a GT3 and a couple of spare engines even if Porsche does screw you on the warranty and still not spend anymore AND go faster. Ferrari makes no sense other than looking good, sounding good, and being exclusive.
Maybe Ferrari and their warranty seems track friendly on the surface but when they rip you off they way they do on "scheduled maintenance" that costs enough to put a new engine in other cars it's not really much of a warranty. Consider the cost of ownership of even the bottom end Ferrari, the 360 at ~$150k to buy new, plus say $7000-8000 of "scheduled maintenance" to put 30k miles on it. You're looking at $160,000. For that price you could buy a GT3 and a couple of spare engines even if Porsche does screw you on the warranty and still not spend anymore AND go faster. Ferrari makes no sense other than looking good, sounding good, and being exclusive.
I've read both threads on this board where Daytona24 has been preaching his gospel. I would like to point out that I have been tracking my S very regularly for about 10 months now. I have taken it to my dealer to fix (under warrenty) the RMS, power steering system, exhaust and suspension issues, and just last week a wheel bearing. The dealer knows exactly what I do with the car. They jump through numerous hoops last year to get the power steering problem fixed in time for me because I told them "It's final points event of the season, I HAVE to be there!" And busted out the wheel bearing last week so that I could make it to my first race next weekend. In fact I have had more problems with my insurance company because of my tracking than with my dealer.
I suspect the problem has more to do with Florida, or Tampa area dealers and Porsche owners/enthusiasts than PCNA, or Porsche AG. Maybe you should visit other areas of the coutry and get to know a more diverse crowd or Porsche owners and enthusiasts before making such broad generalizations, Daytona24. Because you are just flat out wrong!
03-20-2004, 03:28 PM
#133
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NetManiac,
It's also worth adding that any street car even a street GT3 will begin to fall apart with the prolonged use (or should I say abuse) that they desribe. What they desribe sounds like they intend to stress the car as much as all out racing. Even GT3 street cars aren't designed for that and they WILL fall apart faster under that kind of use than they will with street driving and casual DE use. Porsche and Ferrari make cars for the use Daytona desribes, they are called the Porsche GT3 Cup and the Ferrari Challenge. Both of these cars require extensive and frequent maintenace in order to be able to withstand racing abuse not the least of which includes rebuilding the engine every XX hours. Guess which one costs more to buy and more to maintain? That's right, Ferrari! If you a race a car you will expect to replace/rebuild engines often, period! The higher up you go in racing the more frequent the rebuilds are, I imagine F1 cars are rebuilt after every race. So really the better and faster race cars have engines that wont' last very long with extensive maintenace.
It's also worth adding that any street car even a street GT3 will begin to fall apart with the prolonged use (or should I say abuse) that they desribe. What they desribe sounds like they intend to stress the car as much as all out racing. Even GT3 street cars aren't designed for that and they WILL fall apart faster under that kind of use than they will with street driving and casual DE use. Porsche and Ferrari make cars for the use Daytona desribes, they are called the Porsche GT3 Cup and the Ferrari Challenge. Both of these cars require extensive and frequent maintenace in order to be able to withstand racing abuse not the least of which includes rebuilding the engine every XX hours. Guess which one costs more to buy and more to maintain? That's right, Ferrari! If you a race a car you will expect to replace/rebuild engines often, period! The higher up you go in racing the more frequent the rebuilds are, I imagine F1 cars are rebuilt after every race. So really the better and faster race cars have engines that wont' last very long with extensive maintenace.
03-20-2004, 07:40 PM
#134
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wow, my last post was completely uninflamatory, yet every response to it has been attacking me instead of the post. And as for your comment on my vocabulary, thanks but I don't consider my grammar anything more than normal - however I do think yours leaves something to be desired.
In any case if someone has a response to my last post, I'd like to hear it. Otherwise I will find another thread, even I have a limit to how many mindless personal attacks I will listen to. My insults were made partially joking, apparently some people have taken them so seriously that they can't drop it. On the other hand, I have gotten a few personal messages from members who had a good laugh reading them, even if they were a bit off the wall..
Most posts here on Rennlist seem to be self- and mutually-congratulatory in nature, and so mundane that they're not even worth reading. Some other posts are pretty informative, but they are the minority. Mine serve a different purpose, and some aren't able to take it. So I recommend you spend your time on a different thread, talking with people who agree 100% with everything you say - pretty boring if you ask me.
The one main drawback of text-based conversation is the lack of tone and intention. For that reason, some people have taken my posts as staunchly serious. Why don't you people lighten up - if I am an idiot working at Burger King, as you keep suggesting, then why don't you either ignore my posts, or read them and laugh if you find them amusing. I don't understand your hypocrisy - you say I'm a little kid who can't afford a Porsche and that I'm "just an idiot" - but you feel the need to write page-long responses to try and prove your point? Why waste your time, if I'm such an idiot? Ahh, but the truth , some of you feel personally threatened by a well-spoken critic like myself, and feel the need to berate me every chance you get (in the same manner as you CRITICIZE me for using).
I think some of you lead boring lives.
In any case if someone has a response to my last post, I'd like to hear it. Otherwise I will find another thread, even I have a limit to how many mindless personal attacks I will listen to. My insults were made partially joking, apparently some people have taken them so seriously that they can't drop it. On the other hand, I have gotten a few personal messages from members who had a good laugh reading them, even if they were a bit off the wall..
Most posts here on Rennlist seem to be self- and mutually-congratulatory in nature, and so mundane that they're not even worth reading. Some other posts are pretty informative, but they are the minority. Mine serve a different purpose, and some aren't able to take it. So I recommend you spend your time on a different thread, talking with people who agree 100% with everything you say - pretty boring if you ask me.
The one main drawback of text-based conversation is the lack of tone and intention. For that reason, some people have taken my posts as staunchly serious. Why don't you people lighten up - if I am an idiot working at Burger King, as you keep suggesting, then why don't you either ignore my posts, or read them and laugh if you find them amusing. I don't understand your hypocrisy - you say I'm a little kid who can't afford a Porsche and that I'm "just an idiot" - but you feel the need to write page-long responses to try and prove your point? Why waste your time, if I'm such an idiot? Ahh, but the truth , some of you feel personally threatened by a well-spoken critic like myself, and feel the need to berate me every chance you get (in the same manner as you CRITICIZE me for using).
I think some of you lead boring lives.
03-20-2004, 07:47 PM
#135
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Originally posted by Daytona24
In any case if someone has a response to my last post, I'd like to hear it. Otherwise I will find another thread, even I have a limit to how many mindless personal attacks I will listen to. My insults were made partially joking, apparently some people have taken them so seriously that they can't drop it. On the other hand, I have gotten a few personal messages from members who had a good laugh reading them, even if they were a bit off the wall..
In any case if someone has a response to my last post, I'd like to hear it. Otherwise I will find another thread, even I have a limit to how many mindless personal attacks I will listen to. My insults were made partially joking, apparently some people have taken them so seriously that they can't drop it. On the other hand, I have gotten a few personal messages from members who had a good laugh reading them, even if they were a bit off the wall..