To upgrade or to modify ?
02-18-2015, 08:07 AM
#31
Well said. Me personally, while I love the torque of the turbo, after driving one every day I'm starting to think the car is rather numb, compared to every other porsche in the line up. But for the 997, I think the turbo is the best. For the 991 on the other hand, the GT3, then 4 or regular GTS, then turbo S would be my order of choice. Maybe even convertible GTS. It was a tough choice for me to choose between that and the TTS. So it really came down to the fact I wouldn't lose as much in depreciation, since I liked the GTS slightly more than the TTS, but it wasn't worth the 60k I'd lose on it, compared to the 20-30k I'd lose on the 997 TTS in the same time.
You can't mod this car in a penny pincher way otherwise you will make it worse. I would stay away from those and buy the cars with the europipe or any other 5k exhausts, TPC/BBI/ERP suspensions, and HRE/BBS wheels. And then of course tunes from the most reputable places such as EVO,GIAC,Cobb.
02-18-2015, 09:38 AM
#32
Hmmm...I don't know about this but I respect the fact that different people are looking for different things out of their car but in reference to a 991 GTS, recently went to a C&C and this young guy from the dealer (who can drive) shows up in a 991 GTS manual and the car is getting a lot of attention as he is describing how it is more HP, etc... Well we always join up with a bunch of really fast cars and then there is this spiritied drive to the C&C...so on the drive we were togerther and when it was time to go I pulled him farily easially (over and over) and by the time we got to the C&C I could tell he had attitude and did not like the fact that he got pulled and my car is completely stock expect for a SACHS 2.5 clutch...I know this is only one aspect of owning a car but I am just saying!
It's funny all my cars before except one weighed at least 300-400 pounds more and I never cared so much for weight. But after driving many different porsche, I appreciate low weight now and a car being able to go through the curves nicely. A turbo can be made to do this, but so far I'm waiting to find one who could do it without compromising the DD ability of this car.
02-18-2015, 09:56 AM
#33
Well you got a turbo. Of course it will still be faster. Were you beating him on straights or curves too? I like the GTS because you get all the things on a regular C2S optioned as standard. As usual the GTS is a value package. My only real problem with the turbo is the weight and sound. It having no sound to me takes away from the emotional fun.
Oh and don't get me started on the sound...you are 100% correct. It drives me nuts pulling up to other fast cars and events and there is no sound (even though people know it is a fast car)...I am going to change that but I am doing my research as I don't feel like putting out $4-$5K and then it not be what I was looking for...that has happened to me on other cars. And I will tell you that I am seriously considering straight pipes (like Fabspeed muffler delete setup) as that is what a Turbo should sound like and I love the wind of the Turbo's with that kind of exhaust...but I want to hear one first!
02-18-2015, 10:07 AM
#34
Racer
Well said. Me personally, while I love the torque of the turbo, after driving one every day I'm starting to think the car is rather numb, compared to every other porsche in the line up. But for the 997, I think the turbo is the best. For the 991 on the other hand, the GT3, then 4 or regular GTS, then turbo S would be my order of choice. Maybe even convertible GTS. It was a tough choice for me to choose between that and the TTS. So it really came down to the fact I wouldn't lose as much in depreciation, since I liked the GTS slightly more than the TTS, but it wasn't worth the 60k I'd lose on it, compared to the 20-30k I'd lose on the 997 TTS in the same time.
The mod thing though, I feel if someone uses the highest quality mods it should add value. But I am in the minority. I think if someone riced out their car, regardless of what car it is, shows they most likely abused the car, and either had no appreciation or intelligence to improve what Porsche has given us already. Therefor you should stay clear away from those types of owners.
You can't mod this car in a penny pincher way otherwise you will make it worse. I would stay away from those and buy the cars with the europipe or any other 5k exhausts, TPC/BBI/ERP suspensions, and HRE/BBS wheels. And then of course tunes from the most reputable places such as EVO,GIAC,Cobb.
The mod thing though, I feel if someone uses the highest quality mods it should add value. But I am in the minority. I think if someone riced out their car, regardless of what car it is, shows they most likely abused the car, and either had no appreciation or intelligence to improve what Porsche has given us already. Therefor you should stay clear away from those types of owners.
You can't mod this car in a penny pincher way otherwise you will make it worse. I would stay away from those and buy the cars with the europipe or any other 5k exhausts, TPC/BBI/ERP suspensions, and HRE/BBS wheels. And then of course tunes from the most reputable places such as EVO,GIAC,Cobb.
Unless you've driven other poorly aligned Porsches with winter tires, your comments fall short of being credible and sensible.
Last edited by Doc V.; 02-18-2015 at 10:31 PM. Reason: faulty omission
02-18-2015, 10:42 AM
#35
Drifting
Originally Posted by jem7v;12043884[B
]FI...F1 same thing lol. But how could you say the GT3 isn't a better car? It is. Extremely better handling, better engine note, more fun to drive. [/B]
The turbo is the better DD and better straight line car. But on the street it is more rewarding to have a good sound and better handling. Besides the GT3 straight line is 0-60 in 3.5. That is fast enough. You don't need 2.9.
Now for me this only holds true for the 997. If you say 991, the GT3 is better in just every way possible. Straight line power gets old real quick. The only advantage left is AWD, and if it isn't snowing 8 inches, or if you have a 2nd car that advantage is null.
The turbo is the better DD and better straight line car. But on the street it is more rewarding to have a good sound and better handling. Besides the GT3 straight line is 0-60 in 3.5. That is fast enough. You don't need 2.9.
Now for me this only holds true for the 997. If you say 991, the GT3 is better in just every way possible. Straight line power gets old real quick. The only advantage left is AWD, and if it isn't snowing 8 inches, or if you have a 2nd car that advantage is null.
Regarding AWD, Porsche didn't give that to the turbo so the 1% in Europe can use it as a winter beater in St.Moritz... they did this to put the power down in the best efficient teutonic fashion, it happens to make for a capable winter car, but that wasn't the reason for that configuration. And I might be 8 years old at heart, but straight line power doesn't get old. Ever.
02-18-2015, 10:58 AM
#37
Burning Brakes
You'll remember the "Suspension Upgrades" thread that you started, jem7v, I'm sure. In that thread, you concede that you struggle to identify your car's limits, that your driving skill could improve, that your car probably needs an alignment, and that your car has winter tires (you admit that you "don't have much experience on summer tires on [your] car"). Now you're ready to make pronouncements concerning the best cars in Porsche's 997 and 991 ranges--which would include the Panamera and the 918.
Unless you've driven other poorly aligned Porsches with winter tires, your comments fall short of being credible and sensible.
Unless you've driven other poorly aligned Porsches with winter tires, your comments fall short of being credible and sensible.
02-18-2015, 11:37 AM
#38
Instructor
In other countries were I drive (forget the Netherlands) like France or Spain, in the Alps or Pyrenees a GT3 might be more in tune. Although I find also much fun there with the TT beim Holländische wohnwagen überholen.
02-18-2015, 12:34 PM
#39
You'll remember the "Suspension Upgrades" thread that you started, jem7v, I'm sure. In that thread, you concede that you struggle to identify your car's limits, that your driving skill could improve, that your car probably needs an alignment, and that your car has winter tires (you admit that you "don't have much experience on summer tires on [your] car"). Now you're ready to make pronouncements concerning the best cars in Porsche's 997 and 991 ranges--which would include the Panamera and the 918.
Unless you've driven other poorly aligned Porsches with winter tires, your comments fall short of being credible and sensible.
Unless you've driven other poorly aligned Porsches with winter tires, your comments fall short of being credible and sensible.
Here if you really want to dig in the weeds, I think the GT3 RS,GT2 RS, GT3 4.0 are all better than the turbo too. But I don't see anyone driving them every day.
In comparison, everyone says the 991 GT3 most definitely could be a DD. Who knows, maybe the next RS will be the same? I've driven the 991 C2, C2S, and 4S. I like the GTS, because it has the added hp and is a value package. I like cars with good noises. Especially since I drive 99.9% of the time on the street. I may never take my turbo to the track, who knows. I'd like to at least once or twice though.
Again it is MY OPINION.
By all means you may have a different one. We're in America
. Enjoy your freedom.Plus I don't see how my car having a stock alignment makes it a poorly aligned car. It may not be the most optimal alignment based on the track experts, but certainly but no means is it a poor alignment. It's stock, plain and simple. And for your info all the other cars I drove had summer tires. But you don't need to listen to my claims. Credibility will come if other's agree. Plain and simple.
02-18-2015, 12:42 PM
#40
You guys haven't figured it out yet? We used to call guys like jem7v know-it-alls LOL!! The guy speaks waaaaaay too much in absolutes and he's got an answer for everything. So just sell your TT and get the new Boxter it's " plenty fast for the street", not sure why you need the TT LMFAOOOO!
Well, for starters the name of the wheel does make a difference especially when you try to come across as the expert. And again (might be a reading comprehension thing), the GT3 is the better car in certain situations and for certain people, but since the turbo and the GT3 are so very different a direct comparison does't really work. Don't get me wrong, I love the GT3 and if I'd have the funds for both I'd add one to the garage, but I had to choose one or the other, and I picked the turbo because it fits my needs better.
Regarding AWD, Porsche didn't give that to the turbo so the 1% in Europe can use it as a winter beater in St.Moritz... they did this to put the power down in the best efficient teutonic fashion, it happens to make for a capable winter car, but that wasn't the reason for that configuration. And I might be 8 years old at heart, but straight line power doesn't get old. Ever.
Regarding AWD, Porsche didn't give that to the turbo so the 1% in Europe can use it as a winter beater in St.Moritz... they did this to put the power down in the best efficient teutonic fashion, it happens to make for a capable winter car, but that wasn't the reason for that configuration. And I might be 8 years old at heart, but straight line power doesn't get old. Ever.
But for example, I don't see the point of the targa. It's stupid to me. I rather have a full blown convertible. But some people like it, they get some nostalgia from it. Maybe I'm too young. But if someone wants a targa, more power to them. They should have their targa. This would apply to the new ones since they have half a convertible roof. I believe the 997 was just a solid glass roof? Which now they use on the 991? At least it seems to be the same, I could be wrong. I like the glass roof idea, but the new one, again, I don't see the point besides nostalgia.
02-18-2015, 02:43 PM
#41
Racer
Are you trying to start trouble or just interpret things incorrectly? I'm only talking about the 911. And yea as far as a 997, I like the turbo the best. I don't think the other's have enough HP. My opinion. And everyone says the 997 GT3 is very very firm, not good for a DD.
1. You cause too much trouble for yourself, jem7v.
2. jem7v: "I'm starting to think [my 997 TTS] is rather numb, compared to every other porsche in the line up."
Here if you really want to dig in the weeds, I think the GT3 RS,GT2 RS, GT3 4.0 are all better than the turbo too. But I don't see anyone driving them every day.
I don't share your horticultural interests, jem7v.
In comparison, everyone says the 991 GT3 most definitely could be a DD. Who knows, maybe the next RS will be the same? I've driven the 991 C2, C2S, and 4S. I like the GTS, because it has the added hp and is a value package. I like cars with good noises. Especially since I drive 99.9% of the time on the street. I may never take my turbo to the track, who knows. I'd like to at least once or twice though.
When your own views are questioned, jem7v, you often reason ad populum.
Again it is MY OPINION.
Opinions don't require defense, jem7v, but you consistently defend your "opinions." In other word, you believe that your views are justifiable only as long as no one questions them; when your claims are scrutinized, you dodge the issues that you've created by asserting that you're only offering "opinions."
By all means you may have a different one. We're in America. Enjoy your freedom.
I appreciate your statement of the obvious, jem7v.
Plus I don't see how my car having a stock alignment makes it a poorly aligned car. It may not be the most optimal alignment based on the track experts, but certainly but no means is it a poor alignment. It's stock, plain and simple. And for your info all the other cars I drove had summer tires. But you don't need to listen to my claims. Credibility will come if other's agree. Plain and simple.
1. jem7v: "I think now the problem [with my car's handling] is the alignment and PASM." Apparently, the handling issues that you experience with your car are a consequence of its "problematic" stock alignment which is, nevertheless, by "no means...a poor alignment."
2. On which arm is your vaccination against reason, jem7v?
1. You cause too much trouble for yourself, jem7v.
2. jem7v: "I'm starting to think [my 997 TTS] is rather numb, compared to every other porsche in the line up."
Here if you really want to dig in the weeds, I think the GT3 RS,GT2 RS, GT3 4.0 are all better than the turbo too. But I don't see anyone driving them every day.
I don't share your horticultural interests, jem7v.
In comparison, everyone says the 991 GT3 most definitely could be a DD. Who knows, maybe the next RS will be the same? I've driven the 991 C2, C2S, and 4S. I like the GTS, because it has the added hp and is a value package. I like cars with good noises. Especially since I drive 99.9% of the time on the street. I may never take my turbo to the track, who knows. I'd like to at least once or twice though.
When your own views are questioned, jem7v, you often reason ad populum.
Again it is MY OPINION.
Opinions don't require defense, jem7v, but you consistently defend your "opinions." In other word, you believe that your views are justifiable only as long as no one questions them; when your claims are scrutinized, you dodge the issues that you've created by asserting that you're only offering "opinions."
By all means you may have a different one. We're in America
. Enjoy your freedom.I appreciate your statement of the obvious, jem7v.
Plus I don't see how my car having a stock alignment makes it a poorly aligned car. It may not be the most optimal alignment based on the track experts, but certainly but no means is it a poor alignment. It's stock, plain and simple. And for your info all the other cars I drove had summer tires. But you don't need to listen to my claims. Credibility will come if other's agree. Plain and simple.
1. jem7v: "I think now the problem [with my car's handling] is the alignment and PASM." Apparently, the handling issues that you experience with your car are a consequence of its "problematic" stock alignment which is, nevertheless, by "no means...a poor alignment."
2. On which arm is your vaccination against reason, jem7v?
What's next, jem7v--a threat to report this post, or a demand that the thread be closed because, in your opinion, it's no longer productive?
02-18-2015, 03:13 PM
#42
There are no inconsistencies in what I am saying. I like the GT cars plain and simple. I think they are better than the turbo for what I want. To me a turbo s doesn't bring 60k extra satisfaction than a 4 GTS even. Doesn't mean I don't like the turbo. I think at the price I got mine, my car and deal are fantastic.
The .2 TTS at current prices with the right options is fantastic. I love driving my car every day. Maybe I'm using the word numb incorrectly. I just don't like how quiet the car is. As I said before, I like noise. AM exhaust is being made and will fix that issue. I also like to be able to have a car that I can feel the limits of very clearly. It is confidence inspiring, it makes me happy. To me the 981 boxster does this better than my turbo s. My opinion. Again you are allowed to have a different one. I'm not brand loyal nor model loyal. I don't see the cayman/boxster as a "poor man's" porsche, or inferior car. That is a very snobby attitude.
Now back to the topic of the OP, if he wants to mod his car or upgrade to a .2 TTS it depends on his goals. If he is obsessed with the mezger engine like many on here are, he should stay and mod. Otherwise he should upgrade because the .2 is better. Now if his budget is also high he should mod, otherwise if it's a low budget he will destroy the .1 with cheap parts, in which case better to upgrade.
02-18-2015, 03:18 PM
#43
Drifting
Because I like excess? Why do you need a porsche? A kia would get you to A and B easily enough. Maybe even a subaru STI would fit you better? You can take that on the track too.
Well it was said before, it depends what people's priorities are. That's why it's great porsche has a 911 for everyone. I'm not trying to sound like an expert on wheels. But let's be honest, BBS and HRE have pretty world renowned names.
But for example, I don't see the point of the targa. It's stupid to me. I rather have a full blown convertible. But some people like it, they get some nostalgia from it. Maybe I'm too young. But if someone wants a targa, more power to them. They should have their targa. This would apply to the new ones since they have half a
convertible roof. I believe the 997 was just a solid glass roof? Which now they use on the 991? At least it seems to be the same, I could be wrong. I like the glass roof idea, but the new one, again, I don't see the point besides nostalgia.
Well it was said before, it depends what people's priorities are. That's why it's great porsche has a 911 for everyone. I'm not trying to sound like an expert on wheels. But let's be honest, BBS and HRE have pretty world renowned names.
But for example, I don't see the point of the targa. It's stupid to me. I rather have a full blown convertible. But some people like it, they get some nostalgia from it. Maybe I'm too young. But if someone wants a targa, more power to them. They should have their targa. This would apply to the new ones since they have half a
convertible roof. I believe the 997 was just a solid glass roof? Which now they use on the 991? At least it seems to be the same, I could be wrong. I like the glass roof idea, but the new one, again, I don't see the point besides nostalgia.
02-18-2015, 03:24 PM
#44
It was mainly straights but a few sweepers and I know I have more HP/Tq but what I was trying to convey like others on this htread is that it makes a difference...don't get me worng as I owned a C4S with PDK and when he showed up in that GTS I was seriously impressed with the looks and sound but then for me it is all about putting the power down...just my thing and probably why I own a Turbo now.
Oh and don't get me started on the sound...you are 100% correct. It drives me nuts pulling up to other fast cars and events and there is no sound (even though people know it is a fast car)...I am going to change that but I am doing my research as I don't feel like putting out $4-$5K and then it not be what I was looking for...that has happened to me on other cars. And I will tell you that I am seriously considering straight pipes (like Fabspeed muffler delete setup) as that is what a Turbo should sound like and I love the wind of the Turbo's with that kind of exhaust...but I want to hear one first!
Oh and don't get me started on the sound...you are 100% correct. It drives me nuts pulling up to other fast cars and events and there is no sound (even though people know it is a fast car)...I am going to change that but I am doing my research as I don't feel like putting out $4-$5K and then it not be what I was looking for...that has happened to me on other cars. And I will tell you that I am seriously considering straight pipes (like Fabspeed muffler delete setup) as that is what a Turbo should sound like and I love the wind of the Turbo's with that kind of exhaust...but I want to hear one first!
Well I started 50 exhaust threads practically on this topic trying to create the research. After all this searching it depends what type of sound you want. Europipe is great but it is for the deep burble rumble sound, as you can hear in all videos. If you want the deep growl that is the way to go no questions asked. Quality is perfect.
Then everyone else went the other "exotic" way. For me it would be kline, bbi, AWE, quicksilver for under 6k. I went the kline inconel route. You can wait till I get mine and post a review of it. I may try to get an iphone video of it too.
02-18-2015, 03:25 PM
#45
Sorry for being unclear.