NVRANUF

Is there much difference in performance to support the price delta between a 3.6L and the newer DFI 3.8L TT motor?

I'm looking to change directions from the GT3, moving backwards (or forward! ) to a PDK TT Cabriolet

Thanks!

L_perm

Folks here will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is a 3.6 TT with PDK option. I think the change to the new DFI 3.8 was contemporaneous with the intro of PDK for the 2010 TT models.

The oft-quoted rule I've heard is: if you want a manual, go 3.6 (997.1) Mezger (2007-09). PDK and DFI came hand-in-hand for 2010.

I would add that if you do consider the pre-PDK 997.1 TT and don't mind paying for a 2009, do it. The 2009 PCM 3.0 is superior to the PCM 2.1 in the 2007-08.

Louis

Igooz

^ true!

L_perm

Allow me to elaborate on the Mezger rule...

The engine that evolved into the 3.6L used in the 997.1 TT began life when Porsche was still putting the same engines in their street cars that they put in their race cars. The 997.1 TT is the last, most-evolved, iteration of the original GT1 engine (designed by Hans Mezger) to be used in a TT application. Porsche continued to use the Mezger platform on the GT variants and in racing applications until the 991 GT3 appeared. The 991's that raced at Le Mans last month were the first race cars to use DFI, though there is reportedly quite a bit of difference between the consumer and racing editions of the Porsche DFI engines. "Back in the day," there wasn't much difference between the street and racing versions of the Mezger engines.

The Mezgers are more complex. They have more parts, are noisier, and can be rebuilt as a racing engine would be periodically. They can also be tuned to much higher than stock outputs without changing internals. This is one of the biggest selling points with many who like to tune. There are 1,000+ HP tuned versions of the 997.1 engine out there on stock internals--not recommended, but done to test the limits of the design. Common wisdom says that the 997.1 TT engine can be tuned (including bigger turbos, for example) to somewhere in the mid-700's bhp range before you need to worry much about changing a few things.

Those of us who have 997.1 TT's like mechanical noises. We like being able to say that a Porsche icon designed our engines. We like correcting people when they spell Mezger with a 't'. We like to feel like our cars are somehow connected to the earlier, purer days of Porsche's existence, when over-building for reliability on the track--a hallmark that, as shown again last month at Le Mans, still exists--made its way directly into street versions of the 911.

We see water-cooling as only logical--a more evolved view than that of the hard-line, uneducated air-cooled contingent. We don't mind a little--though not too much--comfort in our Porsche. We don't need to know if that ant we just squashed was a fire ant or a carpenter ant. We don't mind the extra 400 lbs and slight understeer that come with AWD, as we believe our families would miss us. We know in our hearts that we have the best car Porsche ever produced.

TT-911

Such poetry !

One small remark, the 991 GT3 Cup car still uses the Mezger engine.

Interesting pov : http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=26804

aa909

Denis et al, you guys are far better versed than me, so do you guys see the 997.1 TT 6-speeds actually stabilizing then appreciating in value over the next 10 years or are we all just blowing smoke up each other's you know whats?

I buy cars to drive them and expect them to depreciate with time/use, so just wondering what you guys think is the real legacy of the 997.1 TT 6-speed

L_perm

That's an interesting read. The Le Mans commentators were talking about how surprising Porsche's success was, given the very recent move to the 991 RSR. And, in that context, I'm almost sure I heard one of them mention DFI--which was news to me. Actually, I had seen one of the first couple of (WEC?) races where the 991 RSR was being used and prepped for Le Mans. Maybe it was during that race that I heard the announcer say something about DFI in the new 991 racer. Maybe I'm crazy.

The street GT3 uses DFI though, right?


First, we are all almost certainly blowing smoke up each other's you know whats, but that's not a problem, and we should continue doing so.

I don't expect any appreciation, but it wouldn't surprise me if prices flatten out a little faster than normal, particularly on manuals. In any case, I didn't buy the car as a monetary investment--an investment in my happiness, yes.

Louis

TT-911

Yes, DFI is used in GT3 and turbo 991.
Same engine as Carrera, even if Porsche says otherwise.

I am sure you were not wrong hearing the DFI comment. Porsche is trying to keep this little fact hidden. That's why I linked the article. If you read between the lines it says:
"We can't use the DFI for racing. It's a road engine. We have a good race engine but it is way to expensive to use in road cars. But we do not want you to know or care about that. The DFI engine is a are real Porsche engine and that is all you need to know."

Funny anecdote. Porsche could not emphasize enough the racing (aircooled) heritage of the reworked GT1 996 GT3/turbo engine back in the day when they switched to water.

Igooz

LOL!

The prices on the 997TT.1 MT will drop more and then it will go back up...no doubt about it! Almost always, right after I sell my car!

I saw the 964T prices drop and the 993TT prices drop and they are both back up now...way up...I know that the 997.1 TTs were a higher volume car but still...last of the breed!

aa909

all true especially "an investment in happiness"

TT-911

Depends, with most cars and Porsche is no exception you have 2 categories of cars.

'User cars' and 'collector cars'.

Today the 997 turbo (any year) is a 'user car'. But with time they'll get divided.

For ever user cars will remain the cars with accident history, repaint, high miles, unknown history, etc.

The low mileage all original cars with original paint, lots of paperwork will become 'collectors'.

I know some people think I am wrong and I do not mind.
I have been a Porsche collector in the past and have followed Porsche prices for 3 decades now and believe I am right.
The signs are already there today.

L_perm

I agree, but an interesting question is: When the collector-grade cars begin to appreciate, do they drag the rest with them to some extent? I hear at auctions quite often about how the market is starting to look for specimens that are nice but not perfect, so to speak, because the collector-grade cars get too expensive.

You also have the possibility of restoration that makes the picture even more complex.

L_perm

I apparently bought it, 'cause I'm spouting it now! If they had just welded the water pipes instead of gluing them.

phillipj

I think that it is interesting that when I bought my car three years ago I paid 76k for it with 36k miles. At the time it was a great price. Now I see 997-1 TT's with 25k miles still in the mid 70's. The prices have actually held up very well!

I went to the local Porsche dealer over the weekend. They had an event with food and a car clinic. I know everyone there quite well. My best friend and I (he has 4 P cars) were looking at all the new 991's.

I realized how much I still love my car and how the 991 does nothing for me. I always want a new car...But not this time.. We'll see what the new TT is like...But I have to say I still cannot deal with the 991 interior. I think it is quite horrible.

I guess what I am saying is that we all own an amazing car that is timeless. Drive it... enjoy it.. If it becomes collectible great. If not .. That is fine too! It's still an amazing car!

I wish I had a dollar for every time I take a spirited drive in the hills and say "God I love this car!"

P.S. I realize that I'm addicted to race gas by the way... That's an expensive habit!

TT-911

Yes, of course !
The 'user' cars follow the 'collectors'.
This is the case now with 911/964/993. ALL are appreciating.
But at a slower pace and usually years later.

And within 'user cars' there are different categories. Even a high mile car with lots of paperwork can still become very collectible as years go by provided it is a 'clean original' car.

Restoration is an other topic all together. Because the investment usually outweighs the commercial value.