After Market Exhaust and Tuning
09-27-2012, 03:50 PM
#32
But i wouldn't go tune before exhaust or before clutch for the simple reason the engine needs to flow air out better if you are putting more air into it and also once you have that extra power then there goes the clutch, and usually along with your flywheel. Once the clutch disc starts slipping and burning on the face of the easily warped thin contact face of the dual mass flywheel it's never the same and it's not machinable. Even Porsche says the flywheel is best replaced once that happens so there goes another grand you could have avoided spending....
09-27-2012, 04:01 PM
#33
Well if you're not satisfied with the Tubi then evidently it appears the EP is where quite a number of 997.1tt guys eventually wind up after punishing themselves more than the once. I think you're pretty lucky not having paid a dime for the Tubi and you should be able to shift it for somewhere between 1500 and 1800 depending on how old it is. As they say ignorance can be bliss where you haven't had the experience of something better so, if you're reasonably satisfied with the Tubi and you're not in an immediate position to foot the cost of a new system then i wouldn't recommend sampling a car with an EP1 particularly for any length of time as it will only get to you. Btw Tom have you got a tune at the moment?
09-27-2012, 05:00 PM
#34
6th Gear
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Hello from me...Well...I ve tried many different exhausts and can surely compare them in terms of quality,sound,engineering,design and performance...In all above europipe is no1...With just an exemption in sound where someone might like the best another exhausts sound...What i want to emphasize here is that i had the chance to try the same exhaust (europipe Ep2 and speedtech Xflow 3inch) with two different types of tailpipes...and guess what the sound changes the most depending upon tailpipes...When i had speedtech i could hear a very loud hsssss sound under WOT and i thought it had a lot of back pressure...so i replaced oem tips with a single 90mm pipe on each end...hssss dissapeared,car ecame faster at high rpm and slightly slower at very low rpm...and a little drone was there also...Another example is my current Ep2...for a year i had a normal Ep2 and the sound was very nice...However i could like a little louder sound at wot...Now Stef made a custom exhaust ep2 for me for facelift rear bumper,so to take full advantage of larger exhaust tips...and guess what...sound changed at wot and became slightly louder...which i like the best....As a result i can say the more free the tips are the more noisy the exhaust...
09-27-2012, 07:26 PM
#35
Burning Brakes
Well if you're not satisfied with the Tubi then evidently it appears the EP is where quite a number of 997.1tt guys eventually wind up after punishing themselves more than the once. I think you're pretty lucky not having paid a dime for the Tubi and you should be able to shift it for somewhere between 1500 and 1800 depending on how old it is. As they say ignorance can be bliss where you haven't had the experience of something better so, if you're reasonably satisfied with the Tubi and you're not in an immediate position to foot the cost of a new system then i wouldn't recommend sampling a car with an EP1 particularly for any length of time as it will only get to you. Btw Tom have you got a tune at the moment?
09-27-2012, 07:29 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
If it were me i'd go exhaust, wheels, clutch then tune. Or you could go exhaust, clutch, tune, wheels.....depending on how much you like/dislike the stock wheels.
But i wouldn't go tune before exhaust or before clutch for the simple reason the engine needs to flow air out better if you are putting more air into it and also once you have that extra power then there goes the clutch, and usually along with your flywheel. Once the clutch disc starts slipping and burning on the face of the easily warped thin contact face of the dual mass flywheel it's never the same and it's not machinable. Even Porsche says the flywheel is best replaced once that happens so there goes another grand you could have avoided spending....
But i wouldn't go tune before exhaust or before clutch for the simple reason the engine needs to flow air out better if you are putting more air into it and also once you have that extra power then there goes the clutch, and usually along with your flywheel. Once the clutch disc starts slipping and burning on the face of the easily warped thin contact face of the dual mass flywheel it's never the same and it's not machinable. Even Porsche says the flywheel is best replaced once that happens so there goes another grand you could have avoided spending....
09-28-2012, 11:24 AM
#37
LOL. Well i don't want to get involved in any mandate along those lines because there is evidently a lot of Tubi fans out there that think this system is the ducks guts.... as is the case with buyers of other systems that appear to be much of a copy of the Tubi system.
I would agree with skandalis447 that sound is a personal thing although that said i shake my head at times after reading posts where users of xpipes and the likes are seemingly not bothered at all with the obvious shocking drone produced.
However noise to one side, performance is a completely separate issue yet for some very odd reason the performance issue (or lack thereof) associated to certain systems seems to go on completely un-noticed and/or doesn't appear to worry a lot of buyers. Therefore, I suspect where a tune goes in at the same time as an AM exhaust system, customers wouldn't have any clue whatsoever what their new exhaust really lost or gained them. As I said, ignorance can be bliss....
I've seen all sorts of fancy hyperbole on these car forums propped up with fancy dyno graphs and the likes but as with the case of the IPD plenum which also produced a dyno power gain on a graph you simply can't feel it anywhere....which i again regretfully reference from my own first hand experience.
I would agree with skandalis447 that sound is a personal thing although that said i shake my head at times after reading posts where users of xpipes and the likes are seemingly not bothered at all with the obvious shocking drone produced.
However noise to one side, performance is a completely separate issue yet for some very odd reason the performance issue (or lack thereof) associated to certain systems seems to go on completely un-noticed and/or doesn't appear to worry a lot of buyers. Therefore, I suspect where a tune goes in at the same time as an AM exhaust system, customers wouldn't have any clue whatsoever what their new exhaust really lost or gained them. As I said, ignorance can be bliss....
I've seen all sorts of fancy hyperbole on these car forums propped up with fancy dyno graphs and the likes but as with the case of the IPD plenum which also produced a dyno power gain on a graph you simply can't feel it anywhere....which i again regretfully reference from my own first hand experience.
09-28-2012, 02:29 PM
#40
Three Wheelin'
Yeah Phillip, I agree with your remark. Problem is Europipe is that good.
To be honest, I really wasn't all that interested in a different exhaust but on the spur of the moment I emailed Europipe to ask if they had a used one lying around. Thinking if I didn't like it I could sell it for what I paid. Luck had it they just had one in from a Dutch customer who traded his 997/1 for a /2 and had the exhaust removed. It was from 2010, Stef told me it was perfect.
So I took the opportunity and had it installed. Now I'm an addict. The sound is great and all the other benefits make it a 'keeper' for me.
To be honest, I really wasn't all that interested in a different exhaust but on the spur of the moment I emailed Europipe to ask if they had a used one lying around. Thinking if I didn't like it I could sell it for what I paid. Luck had it they just had one in from a Dutch customer who traded his 997/1 for a /2 and had the exhaust removed. It was from 2010, Stef told me it was perfect.
So I took the opportunity and had it installed. Now I'm an addict. The sound is great and all the other benefits make it a 'keeper' for me.
09-28-2012, 03:02 PM
#41
Drifting
Denis,
I was just having a bit of fun..
I believe that the EP exhaust is "that good".. We are all sound and power addicts.. If that many of you rave about the EP then I'm sold... From performance gains to tone it sounds like the perfect combination..
I would love to have one but it doesn't make financial sense to swap out of my Techart. Which by the way is pretty sweet as well.. http://sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=110
I was just having a bit of fun..
I believe that the EP exhaust is "that good".. We are all sound and power addicts.. If that many of you rave about the EP then I'm sold... From performance gains to tone it sounds like the perfect combination..
I would love to have one but it doesn't make financial sense to swap out of my Techart. Which by the way is pretty sweet as well.. http://sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=110
Last edited by phillipj; 09-28-2012 at 03:48 PM.
09-28-2012, 03:23 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
quick question, I remember seeing a dyno on 6spd for the EP1 and recall that the HP and Torque curve below 2800 rpm are actually below the stock set up. they cross at around 3300 (probably when the turbos are fully engaged) and then take off all the way to redline with something like a +28hp and +30 ft-lbs gain. I need to find that dyno and post a link
question for you EP1 owners, any truth to the above? any loss in low end torque and acceleration?
question for you EP1 owners, any truth to the above? any loss in low end torque and acceleration?
09-28-2012, 04:02 PM
#43
I've no opinion other than to report I have now read two separate posts on 6 during these types of exhaust system discussions from BB1 owners. One saying he wanted to change it because it was too loud and the other much the same indicating the noise inside the car was in his opinion not sustainable to live with as a DD. ie drone. My understanding of the BB1 is it certainly is a quality performance product of decent construction, so i'm sure it delivers on those two fronts.
However on the important topic of drone for the 997.1tt engine, i am unaware of anyone removing an EP1 because they couldn't live with the interior or exterior noise.
The unfortunate problem i see for the competition is there doesn't appear to be any that have managed to achieve a 100% clean slate on this issue other than Europipe's EP1 product and the expensive titanium Akrapovic system. So if performance is part of ones criteria along with a 100% clean slate of no interior resonance then the choice is clear.
The construction of the EP1 product is also second to none from what i've seen including BB1 and Akra. It is a very polished and extremely well made product.
From what i have read, and i am well read on the issue now, the only two systems that have a clean slate on drone, performance, construction quality, good interior and exterior engine and exhaust notes are the Europipe EP1 and Akropovic systems.
Now If i am wrong please show me some examples.
However on the important topic of drone for the 997.1tt engine, i am unaware of anyone removing an EP1 because they couldn't live with the interior or exterior noise.
The unfortunate problem i see for the competition is there doesn't appear to be any that have managed to achieve a 100% clean slate on this issue other than Europipe's EP1 product and the expensive titanium Akrapovic system. So if performance is part of ones criteria along with a 100% clean slate of no interior resonance then the choice is clear.
The construction of the EP1 product is also second to none from what i've seen including BB1 and Akra. It is a very polished and extremely well made product.
From what i have read, and i am well read on the issue now, the only two systems that have a clean slate on drone, performance, construction quality, good interior and exterior engine and exhaust notes are the Europipe EP1 and Akropovic systems.
Now If i am wrong please show me some examples.
09-28-2012, 04:09 PM
#44
quick question, I remember seeing a dyno on 6spd for the EP1 and recall that the HP and Torque curve below 2800 rpm are actually below the stock set up. they cross at around 3300 (probably when the turbos are fully engaged) and then take off all the way to redline with something like a +28hp and +30 ft-lbs gain. I need to find that dyno and post a link
question for you EP1 owners, any truth to the above? any loss in low end torque and acceleration?
question for you EP1 owners, any truth to the above? any loss in low end torque and acceleration?
Line up a bone stock 997TT.1 with a bone stock 997tt.1 with an EP1 and the EP1 car will walk the stock car everywhere. I'll flash my car back to stock and run anyone who feels they have a chance and, put my pink slip on it, money on it, whatever you like.
Any one out there feelin lucky? Just let me know...
09-28-2012, 04:27 PM
#45
Drifting
Speed,
My Techart has no drone or resonance... It has a great wail at WOT but is very dossile at Idle and low speeds.. One thing it DOES NOT have is that beautiful whistle of the turbos spooling up.. I have heard that on other exhausts and that is one thing I really want..
The contruction and fitment of the Techart is beautiful and there is definetly a performance gain..
http://sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=110
I got my exhaust before my ECU flash and I could immediately tell the difference.
I have never heard of anyone removing their Techart system becuase of unpleasant drone or resonance either..
Is it worth $6k? I don't think any exhaust is worth $6k.. But when you have a TT you have to pay the Porsche tax...
I'll have to seek out a TT owner near me with an EP and give it a listen. From what everyone says it is sweet indeed..
My Techart has no drone or resonance... It has a great wail at WOT but is very dossile at Idle and low speeds.. One thing it DOES NOT have is that beautiful whistle of the turbos spooling up.. I have heard that on other exhausts and that is one thing I really want..
The contruction and fitment of the Techart is beautiful and there is definetly a performance gain..
http://sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=110
I got my exhaust before my ECU flash and I could immediately tell the difference.
I have never heard of anyone removing their Techart system becuase of unpleasant drone or resonance either..
Is it worth $6k? I don't think any exhaust is worth $6k.. But when you have a TT you have to pay the Porsche tax...
I'll have to seek out a TT owner near me with an EP and give it a listen. From what everyone says it is sweet indeed..