After Market Exhaust and Tuning
09-26-2012, 03:45 AM
#16
Agree and like what speed 21 has to say about the system showing it's benefits in isolation. The car has enough output / torque curve etc with all the dynamics' that are going on in the twin turbo motor.
A well designed system on this set up should be able to show itself without other parameters requiring to be altered.
Rob
A well designed system on this set up should be able to show itself without other parameters requiring to be altered.
Rob
And agree 100 percent with that salient point. If any AM system can't show its benefits without the need for a tune to clean up all the losses or dead spots felt by the driver beyond making a noisy din then what good is it really. All i know as fact is the EP has clear performance benefits without a tune. So, with a tune it can only be doing better for the engine as well.
And with any noise benefit you've also got to ask yourself what percentage of the general public are really going to appreciate that? An obnoxiously noisy system generally has 99% of the other motoring public or pedestrians thinking you are a complete tosser anyway. So outside of impressing those few standing in pit lane on your drive by no one else is going to give a rats ***. So long as the system is loud enough to sound like a proper Porsche without having categorised yourself as some try hard ****** in the process, thats the main thing IMO....especially if it's a daily drive car.
Btw. Not directing this at you or anyone else personally. Just saying....
09-26-2012, 01:58 PM
#20
Drifting
09-26-2012, 02:28 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
Tom i dont want to pop your balloon here but i gotta be honest. After i removed the tubi and putting the EP on immediately after, prior to road testing i was already sceptical and concerned where i was going to go if the EP droned and or made the car feel less crisp than stock. I was actually prepared to send the EP back for refund, as Stef had said I could if i wasn't completely satisfied, and just put the stock system back on and be done with it and just put up with the awful bland vacuum cleaner noise. It was a daunting thought and with a low spirit, hand on heart thats what i was prepared to do. Anyway after the test drive the differences felt were immediate. I thought maybe I was just imagining it...but the excitement of the obvious improvement was inescapably there....no question. Anyway to be sure within myself i gave it the full drive home and, back the following morning....not that i needed to go that far in convincing myself as the car felt so much better under foot, and i mean everywhere. So the differences between the Tubi and the EP were indeed chalk and cheese to be completely honest. Theres no other way i can put it. To be honest the EP would have to be the best mod i've put on my car period and whilst it cost me dearly to eat that new tubi i quickly got over it.
Now i cant answer for the GMG as i havent experienced it. But when i look at the cats everyone else seems to use and the same type of tinny shiney chrome construction they all look much of a muchness to the Tubi, and Tubi is a big name out there which attracts a higher price tag as well to a lot of the others so for me I'm very skeptical of the claims. I also recall reading a thread on 6 sometime ago when the topic of power loss felt after change and AM exhaust were discussed and IIRC the general tone was it happens quite a lot and the tune is really needed to get the best from the exercise. Now, in so far as the weight issue where losing an extra 10 or 20lbs justifies the exercise well i'm lost with that. The car is so powerful im just not sure where, when, or if you would ever feel that. Maybe the psychological factor helps to feel the difference...i don't know. I only work with tangibles you can actually see and feel and the EP delivers. Thats the main thing for me anyway...but to each his own. Some guys just like something to make a hell of a racket and don't care about performance...so figure that? Anyway....
Now i cant answer for the GMG as i havent experienced it. But when i look at the cats everyone else seems to use and the same type of tinny shiney chrome construction they all look much of a muchness to the Tubi, and Tubi is a big name out there which attracts a higher price tag as well to a lot of the others so for me I'm very skeptical of the claims. I also recall reading a thread on 6 sometime ago when the topic of power loss felt after change and AM exhaust were discussed and IIRC the general tone was it happens quite a lot and the tune is really needed to get the best from the exercise. Now, in so far as the weight issue where losing an extra 10 or 20lbs justifies the exercise well i'm lost with that. The car is so powerful im just not sure where, when, or if you would ever feel that. Maybe the psychological factor helps to feel the difference...i don't know. I only work with tangibles you can actually see and feel and the EP delivers. Thats the main thing for me anyway...but to each his own. Some guys just like something to make a hell of a racket and don't care about performance...so figure that? Anyway....
Thanks for the input, exhaust along with wheels may be the most subjective topic. You have tested both and you have data to prove the difference. I think we need a dyno comparison for all of the major exhaust on the market tested on the same car under same conditions with and without a tune.
I can say though that I do wish my exhaust was louder under all conditions. At WOT I still hear a lot of air and that's about it. Would love to actually ride in an EP equipped turbo. Cheers and thanks for popping my balloon and now potentially looking for a new exhaust
09-26-2012, 04:18 PM
#22
No balloon to pop here Thanks for the input, exhaust along with wheels may be the most subjective topic. You have tested both and you have data to prove the difference.
I think we need a dyno comparison for all of the major exhaust on the market tested on the same car under same conditions with and without a tune.
I can say though that I do wish my exhaust was louder under all conditions. At WOT I still hear a lot of air and that's about it. Would love to actually ride in an EP equipped turbo. Cheers and thanks for popping my balloon and now potentially looking for a new exhaust
Thanks for the input, exhaust along with wheels may be the most subjective topic. You have tested both and you have data to prove the difference. I think we need a dyno comparison for all of the major exhaust on the market tested on the same car under same conditions with and without a tune.
I can say though that I do wish my exhaust was louder under all conditions. At WOT I still hear a lot of air and that's about it. Would love to actually ride in an EP equipped turbo. Cheers and thanks for popping my balloon and now potentially looking for a new exhaust
09-26-2012, 05:05 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Tom I will say again, if there is any reason to listen to the EP is the turbo whistle/whine. It is not a blow whoosh like some other exhausts I have heard. It is a turbo spool. A real spool. Drive on a side street with the windows down and the sound bouncing off the parked cars, and its the most intoxicating thing in the world. We are talking 2000 rmp level so its really clear.
As for the EP2, Skand seems to think that my EP1 with dual tips sounds louder and thus closer to the EP2. I cant really say, although we will be going on a ride Monday with my car and an EP2 equipped car so I think we will have more to say.
Come visit us Tom, you can listen to both!
As for the EP2, Skand seems to think that my EP1 with dual tips sounds louder and thus closer to the EP2. I cant really say, although we will be going on a ride Monday with my car and an EP2 equipped car so I think we will have more to say.
Come visit us Tom, you can listen to both!
09-26-2012, 05:06 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
Oh Art you are more than welcome to come for a listen too! LoL. Weather is still beach warm here.
Let me add one more thing. Fit and finish. Ask any mechanic what tolerance or flex an EP exhaust needs to fit. None is the answer. As for the packaging I will let you all describe it once you get yours... I only wish all vendors of all automotive parts were like Stef and his brother.
Let me add one more thing. Fit and finish. Ask any mechanic what tolerance or flex an EP exhaust needs to fit. None is the answer. As for the packaging I will let you all describe it once you get yours... I only wish all vendors of all automotive parts were like Stef and his brother.
09-26-2012, 06:21 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
That's cool Tom....was just a figure of speech anyway. Re the Tubi i could go on about the other failings but it would only upset you...as it upset me knowing what i paid for it. I will say though that i know exactly what you mean about hearing a lot of air. My description of the sound from the inside after the cold start function had switched off was just a very bland low grade hum that would rise and fall with the RPM....nothing like a Porsche engine from the inside at all. And at 1800 to 3000rpm it was just like a ricer with one of those droning annoying systems you hear...totally horrible on the inside. It really cheapened the feel of the car big time....well for me anyway. Good luck on your hunt....or you could just bypass more pain and disappointment and go with the given as so many have seemingly done now.
Tom I will say again, if there is any reason to listen to the EP is the turbo whistle/whine. It is not a blow whoosh like some other exhausts I have heard. It is a turbo spool. A real spool. Drive on a side street with the windows down and the sound bouncing off the parked cars, and its the most intoxicating thing in the world. We are talking 2000 rmp level so its really clear.
As for the EP2, Skand seems to think that my EP1 with dual tips sounds louder and thus closer to the EP2. I cant really say, although we will be going on a ride Monday with my car and an EP2 equipped car so I think we will have more to say.
Come visit us Tom, you can listen to both!
As for the EP2, Skand seems to think that my EP1 with dual tips sounds louder and thus closer to the EP2. I cant really say, although we will be going on a ride Monday with my car and an EP2 equipped car so I think we will have more to say.
Come visit us Tom, you can listen to both!
09-27-2012, 11:45 AM
#27
No worries actually I'd like to hear more about your dissapointment. I purchased the car with the exhaust already on there so I really don't know if it's good or bad until I hear something else. Question did you really think Tubi was that bad before you heard the EP or after the fact. I know our cars will never sound like a GT car but I definitely want something with more substance.
Now to answer your question; I had no idea.
I just based the Tubi purchase off all the rave reviews on these discussion forums. Now. If i had the opportunity to have had seen and heard the EP prior too, and then purchased the tubi in favour thereof, that would truly constitute insanity.
And. If i had any idea the Tubi was how it was i wouldn't have touched it even if you paid me the $4500 (or whatever it is nowadays) to put it on. In fact do yourself a big favor and never (ever) line these two systems up against each other unless you are doing it when you are removing your Tubi or you'll probably have a fit....although that said you were lucky you never paid a bean for yours. I could have kicked myself after just looking at the thing alongside the EP. How was i so blind. I felt like throwing it straight into the scrap bucket, which is basically where it belongs. The Tubi is really at best a $1500.00 system brand new tops....and really has no place on a piece of engineering such as a Porsche Turbo. Maybe it could hide its misgivings on a Nissan Silvia or something like that....Anyway.......life has it's ups and downs. Sigh....oh well,...i think i said don't ask.
09-27-2012, 11:59 AM
#29
09-27-2012, 01:10 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
agreed, stock is best for an apples to apples comparison of the true sound and feel of the exhaust alone. I'm metering my mods so trying to decide which I should do first: wheels; exhaust; tune