Darth GF

Ok, I looked at GT3 for the last couple months, but I recently realised that even though it is something I wanted, it is not what I needed. I have a Lotus Elise, modified for the track. But I barely drive it on the street mainly because I have two young kids (4 and 5 yo) and I almost never have the occasion to drive it other than when I go to the track.

So here are my questions:
1-Is the Turbo as reliable as GT3s on track?
2-I'm likely gonna buy a 2007, is there anything in particular to check for with this particular year?
3-PCCB, I've been told to stay away from those if you plan on taking the car to the track because replacement costs are crazy. Opinion?
4-What needs to be done to keep everything safe? I'm a former F2000 racer and will (or can) drive the **** out of the Turbo. Is there any preventive modification to do (besides the obvious tires/brakes/alignment)?
5-Any people here with 5yo kids? How much do they like riding in the Porsche back there?

Any other info to help me pick up a nice 997 turbo will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!

Doc GTO

My kids (5 & 9) love riding the the 911 and they have no complaints from the back seat. From what I've read on here and 6speed, the Damptronics with some sway bars and a better alignment makes a world of difference for occasional track use or you can step up to the KW V3 coil overs for more serious track duty. Some GT3 LCAs to dial in some more negative front camber as well.

avader906

997.1tt is a very reliable dual use car performance wise. There is a recent thread about what to check on 997.1tt while shopping. In terms of advice you have to search forums - there is a lot of info available.

You would have to make some sacrifices in comfort to bring both suspension, weight and overall performance more in line with GT cars. Ie just getting buckets/harness bar etc would take some charm off that leather interior.... Ie if you go for GT2 folding buckets it would leave access to the back and take 20kg (depending on what sits you will end up with) off.

Among the first performance mods (for track) I would recommend getting solid (rs) or semi-sold (wevo) engine mounts - there is too much jerk in weight transfer due to engine mounts. Then I would recommend GT2 (or thicker adj) F/R sways and appropriate adj. drop-links. Lowering or not the car is essential choice here - really depends on where you use it on the road and if you fine with dive and squat (with better sways I think its ok). You can also revalve (at minimal cost) vs buying new dampers if youn decide to run stiffer springs. Sways are crucial while dampers are not.

Stock 997.1tt pasm has it over-damped so if you dont touch that getting weight off is critical (removing bass box, rear seats, getting lighter exhaust, replacing the hydrolic wing (does nothing downforce-wise) with fixed remoing weight, removing rear wipers etc).

Front Cup lower control arms are essential for front camber (and with adj. caster puck you can dial in the caster as well) if you want to run R-compound. Alignment is relatively easy and been discussed (PM me if you dont find). I dont think you need to replace LCAs in the rear but you could go for bump-steer kit if you do lower the car. This is good start and doesnt compromise DD. Engine wise - it's relatively easy to get the tune and if you have budget get modded VTGs and upgrade to 997.2/gt2 rs intercoolers to bring the car to GT2RS performance wise.

Main thing it's a heavy car, has build-in understeer - so you have to run it stiff in rear to balance but fun to have AWD shooting out of corners. Maintenance is relatively straight forward. While not optimum car for track it could be made into it at expense of DD balance.

Carbon brakes - too expensive to replace rotors. OEM Steel brakes are fine and there are better pads available as well. You do have to change for the appropriate for track brake fluid and can consider if you want something done with lines for the pedal feel.

darth g-f

Thanks to you both!

That's what I was looking for. I know the Turbo is heavy and not really a track focused car at all. But I already have a track car and I barely use it, so I will work with the compromise towards DD.

My last concern is with engine and tranny reliability when used/pushed on the track. Anyone know about this?

What are the most reliable and most regarded tuners for power upgraded tune/flash/kit for the 997 Turbo? Basically how much power can this engine and tranny can safely handle.

jcnesq

I was almost ready to order a 997.2 GT3 but ended up opting for the TT considering I don't track and I have kids (6 & 9) and needed back seats. The kids go everywhere with me in the TT and I always call it my "family car".

darth g-f

Any regrets?

jcnesq

Not really. TT is an awesome car in every way. That's not to say the 3 doesn't have attributes I would like; I really would like a 917 for a daily driver, and a TT and a GT3. But since I had to make a choice, I believe I made a good one.

avader906

You need to be more specific about track use (and abuse). 997.1tt has the metzger race engine design (coupled with corresponding gearbox) - unique feature for a road car. It should be less of a concern than getting proper safety equipment for the car. I've seen this engine race reliably and heavily modified cars doing 20k miles per year on a road.

The block has been around for some time and had been pushed far beyoned the stock configuration. Issue for track-only work is to consider welding the coolant press fit couplings (look up GT2/GT3 thread). If you follow reasonable maintenance (all fluids/pads etc) you wont find any serious issues.

Engine/tranny. Modding ECU+headers+exhaust will bring you to 530PS. Given your history with motorsport, best place are always asking friends in teams that run/maintain porsches. Probably most experience guys in europe with turbocharged porsches (as in supporting races) are RS Tuning - their kits retails through few suppliers.

Tune alone would not bring the engine close to it's internals limits - which is around 800nm torque - you get there if you also upgrade VTGs. With upgraded internals you can push it further - including 3.9l conversion. The more you intend to push the car the more you should be carefull about absolute power numbers - but it's reasonable to expect 750PS (850PS with non VTGs) out of the car with upgraded internals - more or less in line with original usage of this particular engine design. For 3.9l conversion and/or agressive VTGs tuning you need transmission oil coolers - transmission itself will handle the abuse. I'm not asking if you want to get tiptronic - if you do then the gearbox needs some modding beyond 539-580PS.

darth g-f

My intent is just a couple of track days a year, no racing at all. But as I push hard and every weak points in a set up tend to come up quickly. I don't want to buy the car thinking it is reliable when tracked only to find out it overheats, or that it needs a whole bunch of preventive modifications for track use.

From what I read, as long as I stay reasonable with the power upgrades, I shouldn't have to worry about the engine/tranny.

But reading that the engine is a "retired" race engine is good news!

avader906

That engine is a legent, over-engineered for road use - few books around just on how/what they've done - including one to be published shortly (Porsche and Me: Hans Mezger).

For few track days, I would think bucket seats / race brake fluid / better pads is all that's needed - these are no preventive modifications per say (while if you were to track non-tt/gt 997s there could be few recommended things).

These 997s are really build of lego, you could - at your liking - do few things to suspension as described (re-using parts from GT2/3, cup cars) and tune the engine. But these are to improve performance and make the car handle like it really should - and close that gap with GT2s which uses the same engine.

My personal take on 997.1tt - is they wanted to expand in luxery GT cruiser market, so they asked chassis guys (who were busy doing something extremely complicated and very annoyed when asked) to soften the setup. They've done it in 12 minutes tops and went back to working on their race pet projects (and/or they changed to softer springs after everything was built/setup). Car feel and control is competely different with few modest tweaks - i really mean it - you should find someone in your area who has done some work and ask for a ride.

With the new 991 and later 997.2/tts they hired a bunch of guys to specifically test and analyze what "GT luxery cruiser segment" actually means - started designing for it from scratch (including realizing that they can not mass produce that gem of an engine because of some emissions laws and cost).

ps: i would recommend installing front mesh to cover radiator intakes for track/road debris.

Earlierapex

Just my opinion here, but your experience level would indicate you aren't going to enjoy the car on the track at all. Once you get to the point of really advanced track driving, are you sure you want to jump on the track with a heavy 500hp car without any track safety equipment? You can drive the **** out of it, are you sure you'd want to?

darth g-f

That is certainly a concern. I was talking about this yesterday with my gf. Maybe it's time to move on to something else. There is a nice Karting track 10min from where I live. Most everyone is driving Rotax 125cc. I figure that it might make more sense to just do karting instead. I'm still thinking about it.

One thing's for sure, whatever the car I drive I drive within my limits. But the thing is that at my level, this is pretty fast. If I were to do it right, I'd have the whole roll cage, race seats, harness Hans etc. This would make the Turbo useless for what I intend of doing with it (using it as a family/fun car).

Or I could buy a Spec Miata and drive the heck out of it. The problem is, I got bored of driving these little cars. I love a little moe challenge and the spec Miata's only challenge is carrying momentum. That is fun for a while, but ultimately, the driving challenge is not that high and I get bored.

I also thought about keeping my Lotus Elise for the track and buying a 996 (need the Lotus money to buy myself a 997) for the family. But I prefer the look of the 997 and the 996 are getting old and everything I know about 996s is that the reliability is not that good. Though this information might not be specific for the turbo version.

Still have to think about it.

ca993twin

I think the 997 TT may be the perfect car for your intended use. I recently saw an on-track comparison of a GT3 and 997TT (probably a newer "S" model), and the TT was faster than the GT3 on that track (on that day). Its a very comfy car for everyday use, if you don't go too crazy with the suspension changes.

Your comment on the 996 reliability issues... the 996 NA engine is NOT a Metzger design, and has suffered some.

Acropora

The car is great for kids. Even w/ GT3 seats they can get in the back.
It's a pig at the track. Not too much fun imho.
It's very reliable on track it you don't go crazy on power mods.

TT Surgeon

The 997.1 is a fantastic car street and track. The only issue is changing the brake fluid to some good hi temp stuff. The brakes will overheat and boil the fluid with OEM stuff. This is due to the hp and wt of the car.
Yes, you will run circles around a gt3.