Alex (UK)

Before modifying my 997.1 Turbo I really hated the idea of invalidating my car's factory warranty by modifying. However, after my mods I have realized just how inflexible the stock Turbo is (eg. can't change ride heights to counter natural sagging, can't order sports suspension or exhaust options from factory, etc etc) that now I don't think I could live with another 'stock' sports car again.

The handling (even on public roads) is night and day between a stock car that's had it's suspension sagging for 10k miles (thus changing rake and thereby weight distribution and aerodynamics as it does so) with geometry set by the factory or OPC (with their large +/- ranges for each wheel), and a car that's had upgraded suspension parts to allow for precise changes in castor/camber/toe/ride-height/rake/etc.

The thought of replacing my modified 997.1 Turbo with a stock 997.2 Turbo makes me frankly nauseous at what I would be giving up - knowing what I know now. I would be losing my mind thinking that each mile I drive the suspension is sagging more and more and there was nothing I could do about it. Perhaps going the GT3 route where everything is adjustable would be the only direction for me now; but I am not a track junkie and I love having Turbo power and 4wd.

So even when the 991 Turbo comes out, unless it has fully adjustable suspension (very unlikely) and wheel/sports-suspension/exhaust options from the factory, as much as I crave latest tech I just don't think I will be able to bring myself to buy one.

I suppose I could try modifying again with a 991 Turbo but as much fun as I had with my 997.1 Turbo I don't think I would want to spend that kind of time and money again fixing things that I believe should be delivered from the factory. Plus with after-market powerkits with the new engine/PDK are going to either be very risky or cost a fortune to strengthen components to reduce that risk. So I am not sure I will have the same confidence to go down that route. Maybe a 991 Turbo with just upgraded suspension would be the best solution...

Anyone else reached the same conclusions??

_____________________________

MY09 Audi RS6 Avant (580PS/650Nm)

MY08 Porsche 997 Turbo (544PS/798Nm)
HRE P40 wheels | Cargraphic/RS-Tuning Stage II Powerkit | Bilstein B16 Damptronics + GMC WC Sport sway-bar set + GMG WC rear-toe-steer & dog-bone kits

Mad Manx

Modifying from standard is a personal judgement. Whether a modified car is 'better' is very much subjective.

It is sometimes called 'upgraditis' - a compulsion to change or modify something to achieve a perceived improvement.

Personally, I wouldn't interfere with standard unless there was a recognised upgrade or modification that had no detrimental implications.

Don't know about the US, but in the UK the market is sceptical about unapproved modifications, so the cost needs to be a consideration - the cost of the mods and the impact on re-sale values.

However, for anyone intending to keep their car as a long-term project (so long as warranty issues are not important) then the personal satisfaction is all that matters. IMO.

trice9

you're car sounds great, but sounds like you are doing a lot of rationalization. probably the same exercise the 996 guys were saying about upgrading to the 997.

Quadcammer

quite frankly, I think you're being a bit silly. Your car is not "sagging" within 12k miles. It may not have been properly set up from the factory for the driving you do, but the suspension is not sagging.

medtech

The car does 0-60 in 3 sec. How much modding does it need?

GT

I agree with Alex. The factory delivers only 70% of the car's true
potential for marketing reasons.. You could achieve a lot of what
Alex describes only by using P motorsport components that Porsche
chooses to use in the GT models for model differentiation/marketing.
I have pretty much transfered a lot of the gt2/gt3/cup components
in my tt and it has become a completely different car in terms of
dynamics and driving enjoyment.
However it is also true that it is difficult to rationalize modding these
cars since even in stock form they surpass the driving capabilities of
most drivers on the road.

LlBr

Gotta bring mine in for some adjustment after 8000 miles. I don't think it was set up right when it came from the factory and it certainly hasn't gotten better. Been too busy.

Alex (UK)

Thanks for all the thoughts guys.

Yes, the Turbo is unique in that it's potential is MASSIVE above what is delivered from the factory. The only negatives of modifying are voided warranty (my car has been literally perfect in the last 17k miles), and investment losses on resale. Plus going with a engine good tuner goes without saying so that you don't get any issues (like Cargraphic/RS-Tuning, Ruf, Manthey, etc).

I haven't completely overhauled my car with my mods, simply polished:

- My mod'ed wheels (same sizes as stock and fit TPMS) are lighter than stock (x8 for unsprung weight) so give better handling
- My mod'ed exhaust (TUV approved) and air-filter reduces lag and gives a better sound, and again reduce weight
- My mod'ed engine (developed on an engine dyno) unleashes power, takes advantage of the reduced lag, and makes the engine so much smoother
- My mod'ed suspension (Bilstein supply the stock parts) let me tailor my handling to the roads I drive the car on 99% of the time, and if I go on the track I can quickly adjust sways etc. Plus lets me easily correct for toe/castor/camber and suspension sagging so that rake is set to how it should be after 10k of driving.

Add all those together and the difference is truly staggering. Hence my thoughts in the original post.

_____________________________

MY09 Audi RS6 Avant (580PS/650Nm)

MY08 Porsche 997 Turbo (544PS/798Nm)
HRE P40 wheels | Cargraphic/RS-Tuning Stage II Powerkit | Bilstein B16 Damptronics + GMC WC Sport sway-bar set + GMG WC rear-toe-steer & dog-bone kits

LlBr

Yeah. I'm with you. Now I gotta do something about it.

TrackDays247.com

Invalidate warranty? Maybe not as you may think -

NineEleven

OK, I collected my 8k miles, 07 car 3 weeks ago & already did 1.6K miles with two trackdays. It's bone stock and just did a proper stock-spec alignment+wheel balancing which really improves the handling.

The car has a very annoying bouncing effect on some stretch of highways when I do over 120mph yet glides over uneven city roads. The bounce is so bad it feels dangerous with & without the PASM on sport. Was told that the rebound rate should be adjusted but the car has only 8k miles & 30months old.

I'm thinking if I should order damptronics+airlift & lowering springs. But GMC told me to keep stock shocks for 80% street. I'll be adding the sway bar etc.

Otherwise, I'm having a tough time deciding on the exhaust/header package. Might go Fabspeed as my dealer is offering a very good package including the conical airbox.

Can u guys please offer some ideas? aka poisoning

IamSMC

+1

There's good and bad mods.

There's better and worse mods.

There's mods proven to work and many more proven not to.

But in the end, its not as easy as one thinks to "one-up" the Porsche engineers.

Let's see how Walter does with a "stock" car:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...11-gt3-rs.html

artur777

to add to the topic

Alex, I know your position about modded 997.1 TT being better than 997.2 TT Stock.
So we will see soon modded 997.2 TT:-) according to some rumors from the factory test drivers - the technological limit of the new engine is about 620 hp... 620 hp was on the test mule of 997.2 TT.

997.2 TT Stage 2 with ECU tuning + Sport Cats will do about 580 hp...
Stage 3- modded VTG will add to 620-640 hp and may require to enhance some engine internals...

GT

You can go 660-680hp with no problems for 997.1tt as long as you keep
torque within 850nm. That is well proven and I had also that kind of
power with stock internals. If you simply change rods then you can
go a lot higher, 800hp+. My worry with the new engine is that without
rods the limit will be maybe even below 600hp. And potentially to go
higher than that even stronger rods will not be enough..
Let alone the fact that we need to find out what is the power/torque
limit of new pdk. Hence in my opinion the 997.2tt is a difficult choice
for people that are into tuning big time, albeit a very good choice for
those that want to leave the car stock as it the new pdk version appears
better in all respects than the 997.1tt.
NineEleven I know about what you are talking about and trust me the problem
will NOT be fixed by changing just the springs.. You should upgrade to the
Damptronics as this will improve ride quality while firming things up in a
meaningful way to improve handling. Also for high speed stability its worth
investing in some toe links for the rear.

artur777

let's look for cargrahic, ruf opinions - usually they are smart