Florida Porsche Dealer 'Finance Manager' Hangs up on me while negotiating!
03-09-2007, 03:04 AM
#31
Originally Posted by pole position
How can you specify moneyfactors , residiuals and buyrates at time of ordering when they get revised frequently ? Have you heard of the lease prophet ? Does not work so well with Porsches but is useful with other brands, it constantly searches for the "best deal" in regards to payment, either with a lower moneyfactor or higher residiual but some of the banks run only a quick special and then they are out or trying to bait and switch aka get a start in the car finance world.
Myself, I never sold at buyrate, APR or money factor on a ordered car new car in demand, no way, because you ain't getting buyrate when you refinance or buy your home either, period. Now , for cars that stack up a entire parking structure because they are so cold, my mind was a little more open.
I keep hearing that one has equity in a lease, for the 1000000000000000000000 time, nooooooooooo.
Myself, I never sold at buyrate, APR or money factor on a ordered car new car in demand, no way, because you ain't getting buyrate when you refinance or buy your home either, period. Now , for cars that stack up a entire parking structure because they are so cold, my mind was a little more open.
I keep hearing that one has equity in a lease, for the 1000000000000000000000 time, nooooooooooo.
03-09-2007, 05:02 AM
#32
Originally Posted by E55AMG
I think as someone else said your big decision is whether your keeping this car for the long haul or want out in 2-3 years. Personally, I buy my cars cash - Also paid cash for my house. I love not having big monthly payments! If I'm worried about what my car will be worth down the road that means I can't afford it.
From a strictly emotional point I like "owning". I've leased before and as weird as it may seem, I didn't feel the same way towards those cars. I also like doing with it what I want, when I want. I also don't want to think about how many miles i'm putting on the car.
From a strictly emotional point I like "owning". I've leased before and as weird as it may seem, I didn't feel the same way towards those cars. I also like doing with it what I want, when I want. I also don't want to think about how many miles i'm putting on the car.
Chris, you nailed it right on the head. I feel the same way! I pay cash for my cars too because I can't write off a lease and it gives me a sense of pride (ownership), even if it is not the best financial decision. Now I just have to sell my 997S in the next 8 weeks! The pressure is on.
03-09-2007, 11:46 AM
#33
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Unless you can write off some of the cost, why lease a car? I would rather own my house, although renting is probably a better option these days.
I guess I view my cars as potential life-long vehicles, not temporary relationships. Maybe that is why I have been married so long as well (not trying to be self-righteous here).
I still love to drive my 1980 911 SC, but I am probably crazy. I hate dealing with Porsche Credit and all that crap. They are f*ck-heads IMHO. But then I have no debt, have 1 credit card I pay off each month, and horde my money in safe places (not in internal orifices!).
-Gerry
I guess I view my cars as potential life-long vehicles, not temporary relationships. Maybe that is why I have been married so long as well (not trying to be self-righteous here).
I still love to drive my 1980 911 SC, but I am probably crazy. I hate dealing with Porsche Credit and all that crap. They are f*ck-heads IMHO. But then I have no debt, have 1 credit card I pay off each month, and horde my money in safe places (not in internal orifices!).
-Gerry
03-09-2007, 11:56 AM
#34
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equity in a lease, maybe if you are lucky in winning the mega lotto, you will have equity in lease. or if you put 50k up front on lease, else, you will NOT have equity.
like allgretto, i ran the number many many many way, unless you have some obscenely low int rate, financing vs leasing really works out to more or less the same (i am assuming in this case, lease is not tax deductible) if you get new cars every 5 years or less. now if you keep your car 10-20 years, yeah, for sure buying in cash or fin. are both better than leasing.
i dont know how you can contract with dealer before hand to get buy rate. but once you have rapport with the dealership and with credit to qualify, i will negotiate for buy rate. it's just like negotiating in price. i found many buyers only negotiate price, then end up screwed at the back end. some times paying a bit more up front in price can give you a better rate.
like allgretto, i ran the number many many many way, unless you have some obscenely low int rate, financing vs leasing really works out to more or less the same (i am assuming in this case, lease is not tax deductible) if you get new cars every 5 years or less. now if you keep your car 10-20 years, yeah, for sure buying in cash or fin. are both better than leasing.
i dont know how you can contract with dealer before hand to get buy rate. but once you have rapport with the dealership and with credit to qualify, i will negotiate for buy rate. it's just like negotiating in price. i found many buyers only negotiate price, then end up screwed at the back end. some times paying a bit more up front in price can give you a better rate.
03-09-2007, 12:00 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by RSA333
Unless you can write off some of the cost, why lease a car? I would rather own my house, although renting is probably a better option these days.
I guess I view my cars as potential life-long vehicles, not temporary relationships. Maybe that is why I have been married so long as well (not trying to be self-righteous here).
-Gerry
I guess I view my cars as potential life-long vehicles, not temporary relationships. Maybe that is why I have been married so long as well (not trying to be self-righteous here).
-Gerry
if you keep a car say 3 years 5 year or less. lease and purchase differs only in semantics. you will by paying a pmt one way or another. most ppl dont put enough mileage on the car. by year 4 you want to get a new car, you can trade in a leased or a financed car, you get ding'd either way....
03-09-2007, 03:11 PM
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Update !!!
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Just received a call in my office from the FI manager at my dealership. Actually, I was busy for the first two calls she made in an attempt to reach me, but she got through to me on the third.
She wanted me to know that a horrible misunderstanding had occured and she never intended to hang up on me. She apologized profusely and was really very sincere.
She will honor the 'enhanced' deal made to me by my salesman (.0036 money factor/$1500 of MSRP), and will throw in installation of my Porsche child seat /anchors/airbag deactivation key.
While not a windfall, I am satisfied with her explanation, sincerity and the added bennies.
BTW: she called me after she was called by one of her customers and told to check out the posts here. She told me she read each and every post, agreed with some, disagreed with some, but most importantly helped her see that she needed to clear up the misunderstanding - which she promptly did.
Just received a call in my office from the FI manager at my dealership. Actually, I was busy for the first two calls she made in an attempt to reach me, but she got through to me on the third.
She wanted me to know that a horrible misunderstanding had occured and she never intended to hang up on me. She apologized profusely and was really very sincere.
She will honor the 'enhanced' deal made to me by my salesman (.0036 money factor/$1500 of MSRP), and will throw in installation of my Porsche child seat /anchors/airbag deactivation key.
While not a windfall, I am satisfied with her explanation, sincerity and the added bennies.
BTW: she called me after she was called by one of her customers and told to check out the posts here. She told me she read each and every post, agreed with some, disagreed with some, but most importantly helped her see that she needed to clear up the misunderstanding - which she promptly did.
03-09-2007, 04:39 PM
#38
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Good for you! All will be forgotten once you get the car. Enjoy!
while I continue to wait and wait and wait and wait...
while I continue to wait and wait and wait and wait...
Glad this didn't turn into another BHP thread.....
03-09-2007, 05:11 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by mooty
i used to pay cash. sometimes i still do. but your 2nd paragraph is telling. if you kept the car longer term, there is no reason to lease other than if u have write off. and most of the ppl who are writing off leases, aren't really doing it by the book. i spoke two several cpa of our company. for me to write it off 100% legally, the trouble i have to goto, the logs i have to keep, i rather just jump off grand canyon!
if you keep a car say 3 years 5 year or less. lease and purchase differs only in semantics. you will by paying a pmt one way or another. most ppl dont put enough mileage on the car. by year 4 you want to get a new car, you can trade in a leased or a financed car, you get ding'd either way....
if you keep a car say 3 years 5 year or less. lease and purchase differs only in semantics. you will by paying a pmt one way or another. most ppl dont put enough mileage on the car. by year 4 you want to get a new car, you can trade in a leased or a financed car, you get ding'd either way....
Also, as a CPA I understand the "time value of money arguments" very well, but I will tell you all in all the best "risk minimization" path to ownership is through a lease ( I learned this the very hard way by paying cash and having to fight tooth and nail to have the car totaled) Again, the Gap insurance is worth it's weight in gold in the event of damage, and in avoiding future hassles upon disposition (trade in) of the car.
Mooty you are going to have to take your CPAs to the woodshed! I'll PM you.
03-09-2007, 06:12 PM
#41
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I always pay cash or use traditional financing thru my bank, but the tax benefits of a lease sound pretty good. How does the Porsche Options program with it's balloon payment deal compare? I can see less tax advantage but at least you are bulding a little equity , no?
03-09-2007, 06:13 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by YesItsLoaded
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just received a call in my office from the FI manager at my dealership. Actually, I was busy for the first two calls she made in an attempt to reach me, but she got through to me on the third.
She wanted me to know that a horrible misunderstanding had occured and she never intended to hang up on me. She apologized profusely and was really very sincere.
She will honor the 'enhanced' deal made to me by my salesman (.0036 money factor/$1500 of MSRP), and will throw in installation of my Porsche child seat /anchors/airbag deactivation key.
While not a windfall, I am satisfied with her explanation, sincerity and the added bennies.
BTW: she called me after she was called by one of her customers and told to check out the posts here. She told me she read each and every post, agreed with some, disagreed with some, but most importantly helped her see that she needed to clear up the misunderstanding - which she promptly did.
Just received a call in my office from the FI manager at my dealership. Actually, I was busy for the first two calls she made in an attempt to reach me, but she got through to me on the third.
She wanted me to know that a horrible misunderstanding had occured and she never intended to hang up on me. She apologized profusely and was really very sincere.
She will honor the 'enhanced' deal made to me by my salesman (.0036 money factor/$1500 of MSRP), and will throw in installation of my Porsche child seat /anchors/airbag deactivation key.
While not a windfall, I am satisfied with her explanation, sincerity and the added bennies.
BTW: she called me after she was called by one of her customers and told to check out the posts here. She told me she read each and every post, agreed with some, disagreed with some, but most importantly helped her see that she needed to clear up the misunderstanding - which she promptly did.
03-09-2007, 08:58 PM
#43
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I think that Colm has nailed it on the head. I have read on and on about how the money paid out is going to be the same whether leased or financed or paid cash. No one is arguing that at all. That is not the reason that I choose to lease. For me the reasons are
1)tax write-off possibilities. If you are incorporated or self-employed, it is feasible to write off some or all of the lease costs, or lease thru your business. Obviously not everyone can take advantage of this
2)risk minimalization. When you buy a car, you are responsible for the residual value period. Market or economic fluctuations can kill a residual value. Unforseen accidents will also kill the residual value. No matter how well a car is repaired, a "paint-work" car is avoided like the plague by first line dealerships. Some illegal alien bumps your car in the parking lot- guess what, you are fokked. Your 997TT gets read by the used car manager with the light meter and he measures how many thousandths thick your paint is. A front bumper means the fenders and hood also get "blended" with the fresh paint. To him, it might as well have been an entire front clip replacement. You get murdered on trade-in. If you had leased the car, you just turn it in and walk away. Risk minimalization.
3)Let's say you own the car for 3 years and keep it in perfect condition and the car's residual is higher than anticipated. You gain no matter how you paid for the car - cash, finance, lease. So why not lease? There are no downsides!!
1)tax write-off possibilities. If you are incorporated or self-employed, it is feasible to write off some or all of the lease costs, or lease thru your business. Obviously not everyone can take advantage of this
2)risk minimalization. When you buy a car, you are responsible for the residual value period. Market or economic fluctuations can kill a residual value. Unforseen accidents will also kill the residual value. No matter how well a car is repaired, a "paint-work" car is avoided like the plague by first line dealerships. Some illegal alien bumps your car in the parking lot- guess what, you are fokked. Your 997TT gets read by the used car manager with the light meter and he measures how many thousandths thick your paint is. A front bumper means the fenders and hood also get "blended" with the fresh paint. To him, it might as well have been an entire front clip replacement. You get murdered on trade-in. If you had leased the car, you just turn it in and walk away. Risk minimalization.
3)Let's say you own the car for 3 years and keep it in perfect condition and the car's residual is higher than anticipated. You gain no matter how you paid for the car - cash, finance, lease. So why not lease? There are no downsides!!
03-09-2007, 09:28 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by eclou
I think that Colm has nailed it on the head. I have read on and on about how the money paid out is going to be the same whether leased or financed or paid cash. No one is arguing that at all. That is not the reason that I choose to lease. For me the reasons are
1)tax write-off possibilities. If you are incorporated or self-employed, it is feasible to write off some or all of the lease costs, or lease thru your business. Obviously not everyone can take advantage of this
2)risk minimalization. When you buy a car, you are responsible for the residual value period. Market or economic fluctuations can kill a residual value. Unforseen accidents will also kill the residual value. No matter how well a car is repaired, a "paint-work" car is avoided like the plague by first line dealerships. Some illegal alien bumps your car in the parking lot- guess what, you are fokked. Your 997TT gets read by the used car manager with the light meter and he measures how many thousandths thick your paint is. A front bumper means the fenders and hood also get "blended" with the fresh paint. To him, it might as well have been an entire front clip replacement. You get murdered on trade-in. If you had leased the car, you just turn it in and walk away. Risk minimalization.
3)Let's say you own the car for 3 years and keep it in perfect condition and the car's residual is higher than anticipated. You gain no matter how you paid for the car - cash, finance, lease. So why not lease? There are no downsides!!
1)tax write-off possibilities. If you are incorporated or self-employed, it is feasible to write off some or all of the lease costs, or lease thru your business. Obviously not everyone can take advantage of this
2)risk minimalization. When you buy a car, you are responsible for the residual value period. Market or economic fluctuations can kill a residual value. Unforseen accidents will also kill the residual value. No matter how well a car is repaired, a "paint-work" car is avoided like the plague by first line dealerships. Some illegal alien bumps your car in the parking lot- guess what, you are fokked. Your 997TT gets read by the used car manager with the light meter and he measures how many thousandths thick your paint is. A front bumper means the fenders and hood also get "blended" with the fresh paint. To him, it might as well have been an entire front clip replacement. You get murdered on trade-in. If you had leased the car, you just turn it in and walk away. Risk minimalization.
3)Let's say you own the car for 3 years and keep it in perfect condition and the car's residual is higher than anticipated. You gain no matter how you paid for the car - cash, finance, lease. So why not lease? There are no downsides!!
While anyone can take a portion or all of the lease payment as a deduction, the reality is that ANYTHING can be taken as a deduction. But if you "get lucky" and the IRS wants to "review" your return, the only question is, "how much?".
Just as a poop-box '84 Chevy Cavilier can get me to the office everyday, we buy (or lease) for reasons that transcend practicality. If you really "dig it", maybe you just want to own it.
Finally, the truly deranged caraholics can't lease for reasons we all know.
So look in the mirror and decide...
