Track day observations and photos
11-16-2006, 06:55 AM
#31
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Vincy-
If you think the new turbo is on/off, man you should race my 1992 911 Turbo S2. Porsche said it had 320 bhp, but we dyno'd it at 384 at the rear wheels! (it was 1 of 25 homologation cars for the IMSA Supercup series that never materialized). When the boost kicked in around fast corners, it was sometimes accompanied by lots of swearing.
I am dismayed to hear about the body roll in the new turbo at the track. My 9966TTX50 did the same thing, and the addition of a JRZ suspension did not help at all, except for making it a less than a desirable daily driver - this from someone who drives a 996 GT3 every day.
FWIW - Gerry
----------------
997Turbo - January build
05 GT3
02 996TTX50
93 RSA (#6)
92 911 Turbo S2
1980 SC
If you think the new turbo is on/off, man you should race my 1992 911 Turbo S2. Porsche said it had 320 bhp, but we dyno'd it at 384 at the rear wheels! (it was 1 of 25 homologation cars for the IMSA Supercup series that never materialized). When the boost kicked in around fast corners, it was sometimes accompanied by lots of swearing.
I am dismayed to hear about the body roll in the new turbo at the track. My 9966TTX50 did the same thing, and the addition of a JRZ suspension did not help at all, except for making it a less than a desirable daily driver - this from someone who drives a 996 GT3 every day.
FWIW - Gerry
----------------
997Turbo - January build
05 GT3
02 996TTX50
93 RSA (#6)
92 911 Turbo S2
1980 SC
12-03-2006, 11:03 PM
#32
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Update:
took the cars to Texas World Speedway, the track at which I have had the most seat time. Spent 3 sessions in my 944 turbo track car, the first of which was extremely frustrating. Track temps were only in the upper 30's. I was running some old Hoosier Grand Am Cup tires (>3 yrs old, hard as hell) and the car was skating all over the place. No hint of traction, was spinning out the rear end in 3rd gear on straights. Switched to a fresh set of R6's and the love was back again. I was feeling fast and smooth, and was able to turn some great laps.
Meanwhile, the wife had been driving the TT in her group all day, so the RS304's on the 997 were scrubbed well also. She started out very skittish, not having driven for 3 years, and only having a total of 2 DE's under her belt. I had her go out on the Bridgestones first, with sport mode off. Then switched her to the Hoosiers (RS304's) in Sport Mode. By her third run, she had gotten comfortable enough to lap her entire Blue run group, and even get black flagged for passing late (she was coaxed by her instructor no less).
So I decided to load the 944 on the trailer, and see what the tt would do. In short, the car is amazing on the track. Unbelievably fast, with great turn in and great dampening (sport mode). I left the PSM on, and found it to be very useful. I did not find it obtrusive at all. I could slide and slightly drift all 4 tires before it kicked in, and then just enough to settle down the car and allow you to continue to shred the turns. In all honesty I was probably a consistent 2-3 seconds faster every lap, because even if one-turn in was too early or with too much entry speed, the car is so rock solid as to let you pull it out without having to bail out or put two in to save the turn and not foul the entire lap. I was having so much fun with it that I cut the session a little early - too much more and it would be painfully obvious that my 944t track car is obsolete!
took the cars to Texas World Speedway, the track at which I have had the most seat time. Spent 3 sessions in my 944 turbo track car, the first of which was extremely frustrating. Track temps were only in the upper 30's. I was running some old Hoosier Grand Am Cup tires (>3 yrs old, hard as hell) and the car was skating all over the place. No hint of traction, was spinning out the rear end in 3rd gear on straights. Switched to a fresh set of R6's and the love was back again. I was feeling fast and smooth, and was able to turn some great laps.
Meanwhile, the wife had been driving the TT in her group all day, so the RS304's on the 997 were scrubbed well also. She started out very skittish, not having driven for 3 years, and only having a total of 2 DE's under her belt. I had her go out on the Bridgestones first, with sport mode off. Then switched her to the Hoosiers (RS304's) in Sport Mode. By her third run, she had gotten comfortable enough to lap her entire Blue run group, and even get black flagged for passing late (she was coaxed by her instructor no less).
So I decided to load the 944 on the trailer, and see what the tt would do. In short, the car is amazing on the track. Unbelievably fast, with great turn in and great dampening (sport mode). I left the PSM on, and found it to be very useful. I did not find it obtrusive at all. I could slide and slightly drift all 4 tires before it kicked in, and then just enough to settle down the car and allow you to continue to shred the turns. In all honesty I was probably a consistent 2-3 seconds faster every lap, because even if one-turn in was too early or with too much entry speed, the car is so rock solid as to let you pull it out without having to bail out or put two in to save the turn and not foul the entire lap. I was having so much fun with it that I cut the session a little early - too much more and it would be painfully obvious that my 944t track car is obsolete!
Last edited by eclou; 12-04-2006 at 12:07 AM.
12-04-2006, 02:02 PM
#33
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After thinking about it for a day, I have formalized some more track impressions of specifically what the "WOW" feeling was:
In an A:B comparison to my track car (2600 lbs, approx 400 hp, 2wd, 50:50 weight balance, lowered, stiff racing suspension, racing slicks) vs TT with racing slicks, Sport mode (boost + suspension):
1)TT does not feel like 3500lbs or more - feels far smaller that it is. You won't think you are plowing around in an E39 or E60 M5
2)what the TT gives up in sheer lateral grip (track car has more ultimate grip) it regains in the ability to literally pull itself through a corner. The 4wd on throttle eliminates any hint of understeer or push.
3)boost rolls on smooth enough to never upset your line - virtually no lag in these driving conditions
4)brakes (steel) are incredible and without end. After 8x 25 minute run sessions, brake dust was perhaps moderate.
5)stability control is an asset! I left PSM on and it helped me salvage any less than optimal line on a turn. Turn in too quick or too high an entry speed, car drifts and then PSM will help keep the car from developing a catastrophic attitude - you can get back on power and finish the turn without losing virtually any time at all.
6)there is no sensation of a tail heavy pendulum, no snap throttle off oversteer.
7)turn in is exceptionally precise. You will forget it is 4wd in all but the tightest turns, and then the 4wd is a boon as noted in #2
8)PASM in sport on the track is phenomenal. Not too much body roll, taut enough to thread any turns and compliant enough to get the power down out of turns without excessive spin.
In summary, I may sell the track car as I am convinced the TT can truly serve as a dual role car - smooth as any SL on the street, sharp as any monster at the track
In an A:B comparison to my track car (2600 lbs, approx 400 hp, 2wd, 50:50 weight balance, lowered, stiff racing suspension, racing slicks) vs TT with racing slicks, Sport mode (boost + suspension):
1)TT does not feel like 3500lbs or more - feels far smaller that it is. You won't think you are plowing around in an E39 or E60 M5
2)what the TT gives up in sheer lateral grip (track car has more ultimate grip) it regains in the ability to literally pull itself through a corner. The 4wd on throttle eliminates any hint of understeer or push.
3)boost rolls on smooth enough to never upset your line - virtually no lag in these driving conditions
4)brakes (steel) are incredible and without end. After 8x 25 minute run sessions, brake dust was perhaps moderate.
5)stability control is an asset! I left PSM on and it helped me salvage any less than optimal line on a turn. Turn in too quick or too high an entry speed, car drifts and then PSM will help keep the car from developing a catastrophic attitude - you can get back on power and finish the turn without losing virtually any time at all.
6)there is no sensation of a tail heavy pendulum, no snap throttle off oversteer.
7)turn in is exceptionally precise. You will forget it is 4wd in all but the tightest turns, and then the 4wd is a boon as noted in #2
8)PASM in sport on the track is phenomenal. Not too much body roll, taut enough to thread any turns and compliant enough to get the power down out of turns without excessive spin.
In summary, I may sell the track car as I am convinced the TT can truly serve as a dual role car - smooth as any SL on the street, sharp as any monster at the track
12-04-2006, 03:09 PM
#35
Nordschleife Master
I have no doubt that my GT-3 will be a better track car.
But, I have no doubt that the TT is the better compromise car.
Eclou, I thought you'd see it this way, but you have to do it yourself to be sure. I cannot for the life of me see a major "disappointment" with this car. I know the rags were lukewarm, but as I've said before, roadtesting as they do is not particularly revealing. Living with a car is. Further, the rags have biases that are easy to detect.
No car, not even the Z06 is a good an all around package as this one for everyday use and value.
But, I have no doubt that the TT is the better compromise car.
Eclou, I thought you'd see it this way, but you have to do it yourself to be sure. I cannot for the life of me see a major "disappointment" with this car. I know the rags were lukewarm, but as I've said before, roadtesting as they do is not particularly revealing. Living with a car is. Further, the rags have biases that are easy to detect.
No car, not even the Z06 is a good an all around package as this one for everyday use and value.
12-05-2006, 12:00 AM
#37
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Doug, hit well over 130mph on the back straight. It was insane - I have never had to brake before entering turn 7 but somehow the thought of entering it at 130+ did not appeal to my left hemisphere
12-05-2006, 11:58 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by eclou
Doug, hit well over 130mph on the back straight. It was insane - I have never had to brake before entering turn 7 but somehow the thought of entering it at 130+ did not appeal to my left hemisphere
12-07-2006, 12:34 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by eclou
5)steel brakes are more than adequate. No chance of fade or soft pedal on the stock pads after 3 hours/80 miles of track time. Also, only a moderate amount of brake dust!
