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Porsche uses worm clamps in the same locations, but I guess they don’t know what they are doing. Welds were fine. Casting were fine. I don’t go out and caress my intercooler end tanks,, so the texture of them is a non-issue.
What I did care about is the tangible differences in flow before and after in my logs and the fact that I’ve never seen IATs more than 15 degrees above ambient. I care about results. You care about aesthetics of a part nobody will ever see. YMMV.
Yes, Porsche does use a beefier, worm style clamp in those locations. But remember you are increasing air flow from stock levels. And also increasing the diameter of the hoses, so the clearances are much less. So if you hit a small bump, you could potentially knock the hose off. It would make sense that a stronger hose clamp would be advisable as an added level of protection.
And it goes far beyond aesthetics. It’s the overall design. As I listed in my last post, the quality is sub standard. I didn’t even touch on the design flaws. The worst being that the fins don’t actually go to the end. So even though the cores may be bigger, the cooling potential may be worse because there are no fins...
No, Porsche doesn’t. The end tanks and hosing all have flanges as well as internal steps in the silicone and it all mates up very neatly. Everything clamps down very well. I’ve not had one single issue with hosing and I run 21-24 psi. The factory connectors are actually more trouble prone as it is much easier to think the connector is actually seated when it isn’t.
Air flow has has nothing to do with force on the clamps. Boost pressure does. Hitting a small bump isn’t goIng to “knock” a hose off that wouldn’t instantly pop off under boost. 20 pounds per square inch is hundreds of pounds of force on that clamp under boost. Bumps are nothing in comparison.
Again, the fin and core design WORKS very well. It may not satisfy your visual standards, but I’ve yet to see any OEM or OEM replacement intercooler come close to the performance of these large AMS and Do88 units. They are fine for the first 10 seconds, and then IATs head for the sky on longer multi-gear runs. Doesn’t happen with the big boys..
According to Kevin from UMW, 1.6 bars is the limit of the OEM 997.2 TT (aka GT2RS I/C) IIRC. Correct me if I am wrong.
There seems to be much debate on this as well. Most believe the standard .2 coolers were designed to run .7 bar. So anything over that maybe outside of the highest efficiency range. Cobb and other tuners require upgrading the oem ic’s before running a stage 3 or a protune. I can tell you from personal experience that the .2 ic’s heat soak quickly on a .2 car and the iat’s go up quickly just bumping up to a stage 2 tune. Please note the turbo’s and ic’s are different on a .1 car and I don’t have personal experience with them.
However, as you can see from the discussion above. There are some that are content with lower quality, a lesser design and lower efficiencies. Do88 is a budget oriented product sold on eBay. They are made from a speed shop in Sweden that specialize in general ic oem replacement. Manufacturers like Saab and Volvo and many other brands. They are not bench flow tested and the results are unpublished for a .2 car. Not to mention they don’t fit very well. The clearance on a stock height car from the bottom of the hose is less than 2.5 inches from the pavement. Obviously it gets worse for a lowered car, and you run the risk of knocking off the tubes (with the thin worm clamps) over bumps and road debris. But, to each his own...
They are not bench flow tested and the results are unpublished for a .2 car. Not to mention they don’t fit very well. The clearance on a stock height car from the bottom of the hose is less than 2.5 inches from the pavement. Obviously it gets worse for a lowered car, and you run the risk of knocking off the tubes (with the thin worm clamps) over bumps and road debris. But, to each his own...
Do you actually believe that because you type something, that makes it true? The hosing fits precisely behind the rear wheel well shield, exactly like stock. My car is lowered and, once again, its been perfectly fine.
For not having any flow data, it sure wasn't hard finding this chart (and done on a superflow bench, no less!)
I think I'm done here. One of us provides objective data. The other talks out his rear.
I was hoping you would post those graphs. Here is another one for you to look at... According to do88’s own published results below, the oem 997.2’s ic’s flow more... Which Do88 graphs/data do you believe? Hence the reason I said they don’t offer any reliable data. Kind of sounds like they are marketing out of their rears...
I have an old set of 997.2 ic’s I would sell you for less than you paid for your Do88 kit if you would like more flow...
You simply are lost on how that single variable plays in. Re-read my statement on how pressure drop is part of how an intercooler works. A straight pipe would have the least amount of pressure drop and be worthless. The entire intercooler and plumbing system flows 15% more air at the same pressure drop of the factory system, while providing significantly increased cooling capability as well.
The factory intercoolers can't flow 1000+ whp worth of air. AIM has the Do88 on their 1000+ whp 6MT car and sets records at nearly 160 mph in the quarter mile. The Do88 system flows the same MAF values on my car at 20-21 psi (450-455 g/s) as was I hitting with my factory plumbing and 997.2 intercoolers at 23-24 psi previously.
You said there was no flow data for the 997.2 available, period....and then you hoped I would post that graph that has 997.2 flow data all over it? Keep on going
Big swole, I made 660 whp on the factory turbos and E85 with my 997.2 intercoolers. They are fine for a 2, or 3 gear pull for around 8-10 seconds max, and then IATs destabilize and start increasing rapidly. I would say depending on your usage, the factory cores are pretty decent for a street car not looking to exceed 100 mph very frequently, or doing any track work. They are light weight, so they recover temps back down pretty quickly too.
I was hoping you would post those graphs. Here is another one for you to look at... According to do88’s own published results below, the oem 997.2’s ic’s flow more... Which Do88 graphs/data do you believe? Hence the reason I said they don’t offer any reliable data. Kind of sounds like they are marketing out of their rears...
I have an old set of 997.2 ic’s I would sell you for less than you paid for your Do88 kit if you would like more flow...
That's the data for their older/smaller intercoolers and not comparable to AMS etc. The data for the ones included in the Big Pack and that most of us use (aka performance intercoolers) is shown in the graph posted by A418t81. Huge difference.
Big swole, I made 660 whp on the factory turbos and E85 with my 997.2 intercoolers. They are fine for a 2, or 3 gear pull for around 8-10 seconds max, and then IATs destabilize and start increasing rapidly. I would say depending on your usage, the factory cores are pretty decent for a street car not looking to exceed 100 mph very frequently, or doing any track work. They are light weight, so they recover temps back down pretty quickly too.
Yeah, I probably won't do anything other than a Custom Tune which I hear is near 570 whp or so.
No track use, with exception of a 1/4 pass or two just to see where my car's at in stock (with EP) vs. it tuned.
No sustained long pulls.
Maybe some mods down the roads if I get "rich" or something..lol
They are made from a speed shop in Sweden that specialize in general ic oem replacement.
Also, I feel that I have to speak up against someone trying to discredit a manufacturer just because they are a small Swedish company. That's just cheap retorics. Other examples of small automotive companies making excellent products are Öhlins and Koenigsegg (which by the way uses DO88 products). Better to just stick with relevant facts when trying to argue for/against a product.
Cheers
I have made datalogs during all these years I've had this car. Unfortunately direct comparison/performance calculations with 997.2 and do88 ICs is not possible because the car has evolved a lot: different IC intake /scoop configuration, different body style (body width, bigger wing and underbody aero), different gearing and wheel diameters etc. BUT some lines can be drawn still.
In autumn 2013 I did a 100-315 kmh pull, last week I did a 100-265 kmh pull. Just to 265, I run out of space on Autobahn... Anyway, I picked some comparable data out of those pulls:
Year: 2013 / 2018
OAT: +13C / +22C
Speed: 100-265 kmh
IAT start: +25C dropping to +22C / +25C dropping to +24C
IAT end: +46C / +41C
delta T: 24C / 17C
Boost: 1.3bar / 1.0bar
I would have liked to continue over 300, just to see if do88 IC behave like OEMs and start to stabilize the max temp (+48C) above 285 kmh. I'd like to see someone elses pulls too, just to compare my stuff to more OEM ones.
What come to someone's claims to do88's inferior quality, I just have to say that opinions are like, well, you know...everyone has his/hers own. But, I was rather frustrated to exploding plastic end tanks and out popping OEM boost hoses. I have tracked my car this spring a lot, including a day at Nordschleife without any problems with boost hoses or clamps. They fit well, the Y-pipe like OEM and much better than the IPD I had. Quality of welds...weld is good when it's penetration is adequate and it holds forces it's designed to hold. Straightness of the seam does really have nothing to do with that, just like polishing that's just for bragging. I have my car for track use, I want my parts work, looks is secondary. Or stellar price. Cars and coffee then...
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Pete
Power. Lots is good, more is better, too much is just right...
'87 951, RIP '00 996 C2 L92U AQ / IXAA IXRB IX54 M96/7.xx G96/7.88 M030 M375 M376 M436 M476 M601 M983 ... + 991 GT3 brakes, 997 GT3 sway bars, fully monoball'd suspension, Bilstein Cup Car coilovers, do88 Big Pack ICs. 10 & 12 x 19" BBS CH-R wheels with 265/30 & 325 /30 -19 MPSC2s.
06-24-2018, 02:23 PM
