pors9

That is the magic qualifier. In general it's obvious that more hands equals more unknowns, more transports etc. which all increase odds of more wrong ... but not necessarily. Clearly four good owners is better than one bad owner. But as clearly four owners increases the odds of one bad owner having had hands on the wheel.

pors9

Strictly speaking this is true. But odds are that more owners equals more unknowns.

True. But the real purpose of these data sources is to eliminate a car from consideration not to qualify it.

TRUE!!!

pors9

hmmm? Just reads funny.

Colorado964turbo

I have the ownership history on my car and have seen older threads here on RL about it. Heck, previous owners have posted in this thread and here often. For me, I was completely comfortable buying my .2 GT3 and previous 964T and 996TT knowing they each had multiple owners. I had PPI’s done and went into the purchases knowing nothing was guaranteed. These cars are getting older and single owner cars will probably be harder to find and there will be a price premium attached to them.

In the end it’s the buyers money and they can spend it how they want, if they want that then by all means make that a search criteria. I am sure Doug can track a car down for them.

hf1

Cars that are 3rd, 4th, etc. in someone’s garage or storage space change owners more with not many miles put by each owner. Main reason for the change is garage space as another toy catches their fancy. Another reason especially with a GT3 is that people think they want a GT3 as they read and hear how great it must be, then after getting it they realize that they are too raw, loud, and visceral for taking their wives to dinner in it. Nothing wrong with a multiple owner GT3, and I’m saying this as only the 2nd owner of my 05’ 6gt3.

Mr. Adair

My point is you generally start your comments on multiple owner cars negatively before knowing anything about the car.

switchcars

Chrono Package gives you the timer. Chrono Package Plus gives you the following additional features:
"Package includes analog and digital chronometer, with
performance display in the PCM. Also adds ability to adjust
lighting, wipers, AC and door locking to suit personal
preference."

Note: It is a misnomer to call it "Sport Chrono", as on the GT3, the features with the "Sport" part of it came standard - e.g. the exhaust baffles, increased throttle response, and PASM sport mode. So no, the Chrono Package is not necessary at all, just a preference on whether or not you want the clock.

switchcars

More unknowns, maybe, but ALL cars have unknowns and require the proper due diligence.
I would also say that if more hands have touched the car, there are more unbiased opinions on a car's overall condition, whereas every original owner thinks that their car is the business and that they are the best owners in the world. This is true about half the time.

I disagree. How can you eliminate a car from consideration if you have no idea of the condition, past usage, or maintenance history? People set up arbitrary criteria for buying a car (less than 3 owners, less than 40k miles) when in reality, the GOAL of that criteria is "I want a car that's at least a 9/10 condition and has been maintained and will put a smile on my face".

bweSteve

My Build Sheet (straight from Porsche) shows MNR Code 640 "Sport Chrono Package Plus"

Nomanclature is always a important in language vernacular, and our Rennlist community certainly has it's own dialect for sure.

Pors9,
You & your company do a great job at evaluating the market w/r/t the auctions, and therefore I can certainly see your perspective on "eliminating" cars based on that data (or using that data to make predictions on the market trends up-or-down),... but in our real world of actually buying a car for our own very individual specific needs and wants, "Qualifying" the car is exactly what we all do in an effort to find & BUY a GT3.

I think the above is where Doug is going with his comments, given those "conversations" about what a specific buyer wants,... is paramount to actually finding the right car.

GBX

Chrono Package Plus was only available with PCM, right? No screen and no plus i believe. I assume that was the reason for the standard Chrono Package.

pors9

That's an interesting take on it with some validity I suppose.

Having searched for many many cars for many many buyers, I can say that this is how people work - they have an idea about what they want whether it is well founded or not. Carfax/AutoCheck help to screen out cars that do not meet their criteria upfront (#owners, accidents, car location etc.) so that no time is wasted tracking down something they don't want - that was my point.

pors9

I have learned through much practical experience that this is a logical starting point. One owner cars with low miles tend to be better cars than multiple owner cars with high miles. Kind of like if you see a roll bar in a car it's best to skeptically think that the car has been tracked rather than the owner just put it in to look cool - then if its the latter great.

My original comment was that the car in question had 4 owners so start with a DME report to rule out any high range overspeed events before wasting time on the car. Getting a DME report on any of these cars is mandatory DD anyway so best to start there if there are any questions upfront - again so as to not waste time. Same point I made about a carfax/autocheck report.

switchcars

I believe you. Build sheets are not perfect, and often mix option codes between models - this is especially true the older a car gets. I was not trying to split hairs for splitting hairs sake, but the lack of the word "sport" in the order guide was an important distinction, as many people were confused when originally ordering the car, and still are, about whether or not they need to order the Chrono package in order to get the Sport button.

bweSteve

True that!! ... and I've heard that Porsche changed it yet again with the new 718 GT4, Spyder, and possibly even the 992 now too. crazy difficult to keep all the nuances for all vintages straight in my head!

Bxstr

I should have said an unknown service history.

First off, let me say I enjoy your website, it is very informative and as someone that thoroughly enjoys data, I enjoy it.

Here is my point. I bought an Audi S4, back in 2013. It was a 1 owner car with a clean carfax. So for most people they would immediately say, yeah, thats a good car. Also had factory warranty remaining and it was at a very reputable local Mercedes/Porsche dealership in the area. I paid top dollar for the car, with low mileage on it. However, once I got it home and started paint correcting it, I found a bunch of airbrush paint touchup and a repainted panel. As I started going through the carfax even more closely and understanding the maintenance intervals, I was wondering why the 5k mile service was not completed until 10k miles. My point here is, on paper, for the most part, this was a very solid car, and one owner. But over time, stuff is going to break, the transmission needed replacing, a couple water pumps, thermostats, etc.

Now, my GT3, it is a 5 owner car, I am the 6th owner. First owner I have found his name. Local guy. Could probably get an email and talk with him or find a local PCA member that knows him. Second and third owner are both here on RL, I have not reached out yet, but probably will at some point. 4th owner, I do not know who that is, but I can guarantee Doug knows since he bought the car from that individual, and I am guessing the third owner sold it to him. Then the 5th owner is the owner I bought it from and I am the 6th. The first owner kept it from 2007-2013. So quite a long time. The owners in between kept it a couple of years and the only reason the last owner only kept it for a year is because I asked him if he would sell it to me. The first owner had the engine out twice for the RMS and also the front crankshaft seal, most owners would run if they see an engine removed on a carfax, but as we all know, that is actually a good thing since it means problems are addressed. But here is my point, if you walked up to my car, you would never know it is a 6 owner car, it looks like a 1 owner car that was driven lightly on weekends. It has 22k miles on it and it looks exactly like it has between 10-20k miles on it. We could also sit here and say that any car with a roll bar has been tracked, that is not true, any car with giro discs has been tracked, also not true, cars with pinned coolant lines are more likely to have been tracked, also not true. The data points here and all of the information is only something to help you make a decision. When buying my first 911, I spent a bunch of time creating this list of everything I wanted, no paint work, low owners, clean dme, etc. I ended up with a lemon of a car though, and most of my criteria were met. The last owner of that car had actually kept it for 3 years prior to me buying it from a dealer and it was a 4 owner car, with me being the 5th owner. But I don't think that a large number of owners had anything to do with the abs issue I had with my car.

Here is my point, look at all of the data points, let them help you make a decision, but if you get the go ahead on a car from someone like Doug, or you get a good PPI from a reputable shop, I wouldnt let a 4-6 owner car stop you from making the purchase. Just like I dont think I would tell someone not to buy a car with a repainted front bumper if everything else is perfect or some range 1 over revs.