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I just bought GT3 and how wonderful this car is. Everything I have asked for is there...except for some problems mechanically.
I wasn't quite expecting one for awhile but I guess racing car is passion and love some calls it. I think it is more like marriage already.
So from my road trip to PA to CO was successful one and was able to cover 1400 miles without stranding. Which is huge relief despite some coolant loss.
We have noticed smell of coolant around at 900 miles toward the trip honestly I don't think my friend knew there was any leak when he took it out from the dealership.
The coolant reservoir was reading min little below min range and it has been staying there for about 4 days. It might slowly leaking but can't tell using eyes.
I got some large coolant splash dried under my muffler/exhaust area and goes through some on the bottom. Nothing drips down to the garage floor too. Might happens when car is moving...oh and we got P2181 code which is coolant temp sensor. Which we will be replacing soon since the dealership already diagnosed culprit of CEL.
And the car is already at the shop ready for some testing done and get oil change etc but I want to prepare for anything that is dramatic.
I would like to keep everything positive and want to think of this as an valuable experience but $$ is always issue.
If anyone had anything like this before please feel free to post here and let me think over and pray that it's not my headgasket or crazy engine build. The thing is that engine was suppose to be refreshed by previous owner at the dealership but this happens after some rebuilds.
Anyway dealership that I got the car was really nice enough to walk through this with me and I am glad they are taking some extra steps
Its hard to tell from the picture, but that looks like its leaking from something in the water pump housing. There are many pipes gaskets and the thermostat housing #6 and the water pump there. Could simply be leaking water pump #13.
I have no opinion as to the source of your coolant leak, but likely from either the water pump or one of the six coolant pipes, which is a potential and ultimately inevitable fault with the Mezger motors. Right after we bought our '07 GT3, i had a shop drop the motor, replace the stock 6 pipes with the BBI inserts, welded in, and then replace all the consumables and wear out items on our engine, ie, belts, water pump, fuel filter, plugs, coils, and on our car, the RMS.
I had other things done too, so I suspect you can get the essentials done for perhaps about $3K or less.
I think the coolant pipe fix really does set your car up for long term reliability.
Any opinions on the SW brand coolent pipe product and fix. Photos they provide look like robust product and fix.
Thanks
GT3 7.1 , 8900 miles, no track use.
Done by a shop that has experience with pinning or welding (the latter best done with the matching aluminum machined, more robust BBI fittings) are probably equally effective. Welding with the BBI pipes means welding up two similar metals, and allows for more weld; some folks have pin hole leaks with incorrectly done welding. On the other hand, there is a theoretical possibility of pinning leaking too, although I have not hard of it actually happening.
Welding means the engine has to come out, I am not sure if pinning requires the engine to be removed.
When I had our GT3 done, I wanted all the consumables done once and be done with it for the next XX years of enjoyment.
When you decide on your own path, I suggest you come back to this forum and seek Independent or Dealer shops in your area, to service your car.
As the others have stated there are 6 problematic fittings on the newer cars that can come apart and cause coolant loss. The wired thing is they're mostly on the drivers side of the motor.
The picture shows a white residue on the case and sway bar and oil pipe all on the other side (passenger) side of the motor. Possibly that residue is completely unrelated and just something you drove through.
The only coolant fitting that I would think could drop coolant on the passenger side that far forward would be the one connecting to the oil cooler on the top of the engine. The 997 cars have plastic fittings at the oil cooler that can break, though again, not as common as the other 6 pressed / glued fittings. The fix for that plastic elbow is to buy metal versions of the same thing to replace them.
Look in my picture here, this is another coolant pipe, though not normally one that's problematic. It would appear that there is wet residue in the red circle where the two pipes come together at the gasket. That may be worth investigating further. You may have to clean everything to see where residue starts to show back up if indeed there is a leak. also on that same pipe I'm curious to know what the text is I circled in blue. My car is older (2004) but doesn't have any writing on the pipe.
Those red tow hooks attached to the rear cross brace on the sub frame are great for easily getting the car tied down to a trailer if you trailer it to and from the track.
Additionally, not to be the guy with bad news, it would appear as though there is some oil residue on the engine where the two halfs of the case come together. More often than not this is a leaky front main seal. Based on the residue present it's a very minor issue at this point and not likely to need to be addressed at this time. I've replaced the front main on my car 2x in the past 4 years. Many claim it starts to leak from lack of use.
Finally...maybe this is all a concern for not. IF a recent maintenance was done on the car and coolant was flushed but without the factory tool to pressurize the system, there are areas of air pockets that are difficult to get out and possibly one of those pockets worked it's way out causing the coolant to be slightly low.
Head gasket failures are almost unheard of with these engines.
Thank you guys for the inputs. The car already has all the piping welded and has sharkwerk stuff for preventive but we have not ruled out piping issues since I heard piping takes a lot of skills to get this done right.
Also I have talked to the dealership where I bought the car from they think it's just air pocket that might have been present after flushing out the coolants which is possibility since car was just recently taken out after rebuild.
Currently talking to the owner of the shop and he hasn't found anything leaking when they tested out but he is going test again with car running. He said not too worry about since we will get to the bottom of this.
As for RMS seal I thought they would last quite awhile but if I am going to drop the engine for some service I would upgrade anything that needs to be done.
Again thank you guys for help. I will keep this updated!
As for RMS seal I thought they would last quite awhile but if I am going to drop the engine for some service I would upgrade anything that needs to be done.
for clarification...there are front and rear (RMS) main seals...the rear main is the one that sucks, motor and transmission need to come apart to replace that one.
Based on the residue in your picture yours appears to have a VERY small leak from the FRONT main. That one is pretty easy and can be replaced in the car.
When my waterpump grenaded the water/water wetter was pouring out the driver side. Had at another time a coolant pipe fitting by ac motor on passenger side that popped out that kinda looks at that general vicinity where your leak is. Mite as well drop the whole motor and get pipes pinned/welded and all rubber hoses changed out including the intake manifold hoses(had one of those cracked as well). Mike
I think the OP stated that his coolant pipes were already welded.
as for a leaking rear main seal, or more properly in most cases, a weepy RMS, I had mine replaced about 2K miles ago, and when Karl at RennsportKC had my car for the recent repairs, when i picked it up, he mentioned a slightly moist rear seal. But he said pretty much they all do that, and it won't get any oil on the clutch, and not to worry about it at all. Every car I have owned, esp the British ones of long ago, leaked, sometimes enough I never needed to actually do an oil change.
So I don't intend to have any more worry or replacement of our car's RMS. Excellence mag a year or so ago, discussed this, and as I understand it, the GT3's RMS is designed to seal with engine vacuum, and if not driven often, will weep a bit.
So for this minor issue i will be like Alfred E. Neuman.
We found out that the coolant is leaking when it was driven. Shop owner pressurized test cold and starting but didn't find any leaks but found leaks after drove it out. He believes that the temperature/moving has to do with it since it happened after he drove it out.
Location is currently unknown but leak is definitely coming out from the rear. It might be rear coolant pipe that might have been welded or never welded. But we never know until engine is out.
I can't believe it now we have to drop the engine... sigh..... adrenaline rush is kicking in and $$$ figure going across my brain...
worst part is that how the heck am I going to explain it to my wife that I am already spending $$$ into car I just bought and driven for 2 days hahahahahaha
I am hoping to get help from the dealership who rebuilt the engine but I honestly don't know how far they can go. If they do take care of this I can really trust this dealership obviously.
According to Sharkwerks....
Since I was so happy that the coolant piping was welded already but I suppose pinning was better idea it looks like. If this is happening because it was welded, then I will be so unhappy.
Welding Coolant Lines
Something that has gained a lot of popularity in recent months is the welding of these coolant lines, instead of pinning as we recommend. It might sound like an appealing solution, as a proper weld is nearly unbreakable. However we believe this is missing the point of the issue and is a riskier and possibly less reliable solution.
We've now seen at least three cars come in with welded lines that are leaking and so we discourage this practice. Each fix was done by a "top" welder or reputable independent Porsche tuner in our area. The weld fixes will show porosity (air pockets) or cracks in different places, and coolant will seep or drip, with pink cloudy residue near the welded lines. Some have lasted under 1000 miles.
We have seen welded lines that appear to be holding up fine, so we would not discredit the choice, but we also believe the pinning to be 100% reliable if done right.
We believe that welding is approaching the problem from the wrong angle: the problem is not that the coolant escapes around the tube (through the gap occupied by the glue) and it never has been: so welding and patching up the gap there is pointless.
The whole problem is the tubes eject from the engine causing massive coolant loss. Just locking those tubes in, with even the old factory glue, is sufficient to prevent a leak for the life of the vehicle. We have re-inspected our pinned lines on cars 50,000 miles later and the result is unchanged. Welds on the other hand on these pieces may eventually crack as the pipes and cast pieces heat and cool over the years at different rates.
As the temperature of the engine rises from ambient (0-40F degrees in winter perhaps) to operating temperature (210F+) the different metals in the pipe, cast piece and weld will all expand at different rates. This is where that factory glue (that is often criticized) works well: it is a great material for its expansion properties. It will expand evenly and turn softer. However if welded and fixed in place, the aluminum tubes, cast housings and weld material will contrast and expand at different rates. This may lead to cracking and failures as the pieces cannot flex or stretch evenly. Also, new weaknesses may be added to the factory pieces that were never a problem before.
Locally we have performed over 40 of the pinning fixes (probably closer to 60) and not one has leaked since the installation: we regularly see these cars for updates and inspections when doing other installations. The pins will never break and the glue should never leak.
Since it's unnecessary to weld in the first place, why make such a mess of your stock parts and permanently modify all those parts? In addition to the reasons above (missing the point of the problem) - the issue is that welding a thin metal tube (or thick in the case of the aftermarket ones) to a soft/porous cast housing is just a recipe for disaster. You simply cannot get the penetration right on both surfaces simultaneously, it's almost certain that your weld will penetrate through the cast piece easily (like a marshmallow) and have a hard time going through the tube (which is more like a very hard cheese). It will look like it's sticking to it but that's not how a weld works: unless you can inspect both sides of the weld you can't be certain it actually took. Even if it does, you cannot be sure that the weld will last, since this piece is constantly changing shape and size with temperature and each piece will change at different rates.
To reiterate, this is why as long term owners and enthusiasts for 996 and 997 GT3 and Turbo models, we do not recommend the "weld" fix for coolant repair and do not perform this repair in house.
Welding done right is fine. Pinning can be fine too.
Don't worry dropping an engine in a Porsche is no different than removing a tire Ina normal car. Common procedure. Just expensive.
Updates: was going to drop the engine but the dealership wants to try if my coolant temperature sensor can cure the problem before we drop it. Also it looks like the welding has been done about 2 years ago, which means it has been driven for awhile. This can be good news or bad news depending on if the welding failed after 2 years or it is still going strong.
We will see if coolant temp sensor fixes the problem.........
09-30-2015, 08:09 PM
GT3 coolant loss where?
