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Yes, my impressions on the DSC are subjective, i.e. seat of the pants. I am definitely not pushing the car very hard on the street. I save that for the track. When I am on the street, if I try to adjust the DSC settings based on perceived comfort over bumpy roads, then as I said earlier, I don't see a lot of difference between the 3 modes.
I do find myself using different settings on different tracks, however. Here in the Northeast, I use setting #1 ("softest") at NHMS, #3 (stiffest) at Palmer, #2 at WGI, #3 at LRP, and #3 at Thompson.
having said that I can definitely sense a noticeable difference between mode 1 and 3 on the highway in my GT3 ... its harder to say if I can discern a
difference between 1-2 and 2-3 ...
for my money adding DSC is probably the best value-for-money suspension mod (next to the GT2 rear swaybar for the 7.1 GT3) that you can make...
I'm hoping that the team will come out with a GTS DSC so I can add one to my new GTS asap!
Subscribed. I have the DSC controller and found mode 3 to be very confidence inspiring on a track, especially high speed corners or long sweepers. Compared to mode 1, you can definitely feel the suspension becomes stiffer quicker in transition and you have more confidence leaning on it.
Looking forward to people's review of the coil overs on street and track, it sounds like a perfect match to the DSC controller.
After setting a new qualifying lap record in the #36 car, Mike Levitas went on to set a new race lap record in the first race of the weekend at Watkins Glen. Even from watching on the tv, you could visibly see how planted the #36 car was when driving over the curbing compared to the other cars in the field. We will link the broadcast when/if IMSA posts it online.
While other teams set up for a wet race 2, Levitas left the setup alone and allowed DSC/DDA to adjust to the wet conditions on its own. The results? Another P1 finish.
It was great to see the DSC/DDA setup working to its potential in both wet and dry conditions. With the Yokohama tires that are run in the IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge series, we typically see a 1.8G threshold in dry conditions and a 60 bar dry brake threshold. In wet conditions these numbers are about 0.8-0.9G and 30-35 bar. The DSC/DDA did an excellent job of adjusting the damping rates to achieve these thresholds in both conditions with little manual setup or adjustments.
We really couldn't be more happy with the results from this weekend. And while Levitas is an excellent driver and we couldn't have done it without him, the DSC/DDA setup played a critical role in weekend's sweep!
So the setup on the race car appears to have remote reservoirs, which is different than the pictured system on page 4 here for the street cars.
In this active application, how are the remote reservoirs utilized?
Good question. There are two reasons for a modern shock to have remote canisters:
1) In order to have independent compression adjustment via turning ****(s) on a mono-tube shock, the canister provides housing for the adjustment mechanism and for the ****(s).
2) When a mono-tube shock body is too short, there isn’t enough space for a piston to separate hydraulic oil and nitrogen for long-term reliability. In such a case, a remote canister is used to house the piston for the separation to occur in the canister. Tractive Suspension engineers determine the long-term reliability of each model by rigorously testing over 2 million cycles at 100C degrees (212F). For example, the Tractive DDA 996 rear shock (in photo below) is too short to have a separation piston in the mono-tube; a canister is necessary in order to pass Tractive’s stringent testing. Here is a photo of the Tractive DDA 996 rear shock. The price is higher than the 997 due to the addition of the remote canister.
Our GT3 Cup race car has the first set of Tractive DDA shocks on the 997 platform. This set has ***** on the canister to help us develop the new DSC mapping for the fast reaction of the DDA valve. We turned the ***** in pit lane in conventional manner during the development stage. The **** changes that made improvements were then programmed into the software and we returned the ***** to neutral position. This set is also shorter to match the dimensions of the factory GT3 Cup racing shocks, since all competitors are required to use the factory GT3 Cup short springs, per IMSA racing rules. The Cup/R/RSR-length shocks aren’t recommended for street and most dual purpose cars due to insufficient stroke/travel. The DDA valve in our race car is the same patented valve as in all Tractive DDA shocks.
will definitely post up when i finally pull the trigger-- hopefully within the next 60 days
however i'm under no illusion that i will get a "limo ride" from the DDA's. it's a GT3, and i don't believe the technology currently exists using a traditional spring and damper setup-- even an active one-- that will truly allow that, especially on an ageing platform like the 997.
i've driven 458's and MP4's, and those-- the Mclaren in particular-- have a degree of comfort which i can only dream about for my car. if the DDA's get even halfway there, i'd be happy.
am i overpaying given such a marginal improvement in comfort? i guess we'll find out soon enough. what makes the decision easier is that i was all prepared to go with a set of full adjustable Exe-TC's, and those are at least as pricey as the Tractive's. problem is, there's no one around here whom I trust to really set up a full adjustable suspension properly, so i could just end up making things worse!
The "Limo ride" was obviously just an exaggeration
I too am exploring the exe-tc gear as well and it is the attraction of the softer progressive springs paired with large diameter piston dampers which seem to compensate for the softer spring rates which I find intuitive
On the Tractive/DSC I am informed they put 400lb front and 700lb rear springs, bearing in mind my Bilstein Damptronics wear 340 and 570 this just didn't seem to tally with a better ride
On the Tractive/DSC I am informed they put 400lb front and 700lb rear springs, bearing in mind my Bilstein Damptronics wear 340 and 570 this just didn't seem to tally with a better ride
I have personally tested springs from five sets of B16 Damptronic for GT3/RS/GT2. Of the five sets tested using exactly the same equipment and method, the front springs measured between 331-348 in-lb. and the rear springs measured from 717-731 in-lb. Same part numbers on the springs, however each has a production month/year, the later production are stiffer. I don't know whether or not the extra stiffness was intentional or just happened to be the result of a particular batch of spring wire used in production. Currently, I have B16 Damptronic on my DSC-equipped 997.1 GT3. I swapped out the "short" B16 main/tender front springs to longer 500 in-lb springs. Despite the 50% increase in stiffness the longer 500 springs ride very noticeably nicer and more composed over bumps! Anyone who has ridden in my car can attest to this. I also did the same B16 front spring swap on my previous cars, a 997.1 Carrera S, and got the same results.
I have experimented a great deal with springs over the last 7 years and came to the conclusion that the ride compliance is more than a function of the advertised spring rate. Its also the length of wire used to make the spring, the production method(i.e. pitch of wire, heat treating), and metallurgy engineering. Swift brand springs seem to be on top of the game since they produce their own spring wire exclusively of motorsports to aid frequency control.
I am going to install Tractive DDA on my car this weekend with 400/700 Swift springs and will let you know how it compares. Actually the exact advertised spring rates are 392/728 in-lb (7/13kg-mm). I haven't been this excited in a long time.
I have personally tested springs from five sets of B16 Damptronic for GT3/RS/GT2. Of the five sets tested using exactly the same equipment and method, the front springs measured between 331-348 in-lb. and the rear springs measured from 717-731 in-lb. Same part numbers on the springs, however each has a production month/year, the later production are stiffer. I don't know whether or not the extra stiffness was intentional or just happened to be the result of a particular batch of spring wire used in production. Currently, I have B16 Damptronic on my DSC-equipped 997.1 GT3. I swapped out the "short" B16 main/tender front springs to longer 500 in-lb springs. Despite the 50% increase in stiffness the longer 500 springs ride very noticeably nicer and more composed over bumps! Anyone who has ridden in my car can attest to this. I also did the same B16 front spring swap on my previous cars, a 997.1 Carrera S, and got the same results.
I have experimented a great deal with springs over the last 7 years and came to the conclusion that the ride compliance is more than a function of the advertised spring rate. Its also the length of wire used to make the spring, the production method(i.e. pitch of wire, heat treating), and metallurgy engineering. Swift brand springs seem to be on top of the game since they produce their own spring wire exclusively of motorsports to aid frequency control.
I am going to install Tractive DDA on my car this weekend with 400/700 Swift springs and will let you know how it compares. Actually the exact advertised spring rates are 392/728 in-lb (7/13kg-mm). I haven't been this excited in a long time.
Building off what Tom said, there are some other factors to consider. While we do recommend certain spring rates for various models, we recognize that there is actually a proper range here, not just one specific spring rate. Additionally, we work with each individual customer and can customize spring rates based on other mechanical setup characteristics, driving style, intended use, etc.
Secondly, the Tractive DDA dampers have a much vaster dynamic range than the OEM or Bilstein options, both on the "firm" and on the "soft" end. This allows us to rely less on the springs and achieve more versatility out of a given spring rate.
Lastly, we've mentioned before that we will be releasing our user friendly software in the 3rd quarter of this year. Again, this will allow you to customize the mapping to make further use of the damping capability of the Tractives and alter the characteristics of your suspension setup without changing spring rates.
I have personally tested springs from five sets of B16 Damptronic for GT3/RS/GT2. Of the five sets tested using exactly the same equipment and method, the front springs measured between 331-348 in-lb. and the rear springs measured from 717-731 in-lb. Same part numbers on the springs, however each has a production month/year, the later production are stiffer. I don't know whether or not the extra stiffness was intentional or just happened to be the result of a particular batch of spring wire used in production. Currently, I have B16 Damptronic on my DSC-equipped 997.1 GT3. I swapped out the "short" B16 main/tender front springs to longer 500 in-lb springs. Despite the 50% increase in stiffness the longer 500 springs ride very noticeably nicer and more composed over bumps! Anyone who has ridden in my car can attest to this. I also did the same B16 front spring swap on my previous cars, a 997.1 Carrera S, and got the same results.
I have experimented a great deal with springs over the last 7 years and came to the conclusion that the ride compliance is more than a function of the advertised spring rate. Its also the length of wire used to make the spring, the production method(i.e. pitch of wire, heat treating), and metallurgy engineering. Swift brand springs seem to be on top of the game since they produce their own spring wire exclusively of motorsports to aid frequency control.
I am going to install Tractive DDA on my car this weekend with 400/700 Swift springs and will let you know how it compares. Actually the exact advertised spring rates are 392/728 in-lb (7/13kg-mm). I haven't been this excited in a long time.
Tom what springs do you use when replacing the stock ones on the B16, any 2.25"?
I'm thinking of putting the B16 on my new GTS cabriolet ...
I'm also curious why you choose to install the damptronics on the GT3 initially?
I too am exploring the exe-tc gear as well and it is the attraction of the softer progressive springs paired with large diameter piston dampers which seem to compensate for the softer spring rates which I find intuitive
On the Tractive/DSC I am informed they put 400lb front and 700lb rear springs, bearing in mind my Bilstein Damptronics wear 340 and 570 this just didn't seem to tally with a better ride
I came close to going with the Exe-TC's but just didn't have the disposable change at the time. And then Graham Gleeson tragically died suddenly, and i wanted to wait and see how the company would get on without the founder. Any news on that front?
And of course in the meantime, the DSC option came up...
Originally Posted by Tom-TPC Racing
I am going to install Tractive DDA on my car this weekend with 400/700 Swift springs and will let you know how it compares. Actually the exact advertised spring rates are 392/728 in-lb (7/13kg-mm). I haven't been this excited in a long time.
Awesome! Looking forward to your report! As you know from our correspondence, my interest is less in hardcore DE days and laptimes, and MUCH more in fast road driving over less than perfect roads.
Re: the new user adjustable system that will be out soon, will this be backward compatible with the Tractive's and DSC, if i were to purchase the DDA's today? i live in Asia and don't want to have to keep shipping my DSC back and forth for reprogramming...
Tom what springs do you use when replacing the stock ones on the B16, any 2.25"?
I used Eibach ERS 8" x 2.25" ID. I replaced the 60mm ID upper hat and machined the lower perch to 2.25".
Originally Posted by Larry Cable
I'm also curious why you choose to install the damptronics on the GT3 initially?
I did this last Spring. The B16 Damptronics was the most ideal choice for electronic coilovers at the time. I had the same B16 on my 997.1 Carrera S which I experimented with the B16 short 330, longer Eibach 450, and 500 front springs. I liked them on the Carrera S and wanted a familiar feeling suspension when I switched to the more powerful and no-PSM GT3. Both cars have TPC sway bars and setup.
We've got some in-car footage from Watkins Glen of both the race car and the 987 Boxster Spyder, as well as some more sound bites of Mike's interview with Johnathan Gitlin of Ars Technica. Mike discusses some of his philosophy and drive behind developing DSC Sport and addresses some of its functions.
We shipped out a large order of Tractive DDA dampers and DSC Sport modules to our guys at Viper Exchange at the end of last week.
We thought with all the Tractive dampers we've been receiving that we would do some QC testing to ensure full damping range and functionality. So far, nothing short of perfection! You can see by the dyno charts just how dynamic and precise the damping range of these shocks really is.
06-29-2015, 03:07 PM
