Shaping up a new-to-me 07 GT3
#121
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Onefstm-
P.S. I think you'll be astounded by the new software, 3-axis, springs, rear mounts, and toe links! You will never believe you are using stock PASM shocks!
P.S. I think you'll be astounded by the new software, 3-axis, springs, rear mounts, and toe links! You will never believe you are using stock PASM shocks!
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PCA National Instructor
TPC Racing stats:
2023 Porsche Sprint Challenge 992 Cup Am Champion
2023 Porsche Sprint Challenge GT4 Pro-Am Team Champion
2022 Porsche Sprint Challenge 992 Cup & 991 Cup Champion
2020 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge 2nd Championship
2018 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge 2nd Championship
2016 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champion
2013 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champion
2006 Rolex-24 @ Daytona GT Champion
2004 Grand-Am SGS Class Champion
PCA National Instructor
TPC Racing stats:
2023 Porsche Sprint Challenge 992 Cup Am Champion
2023 Porsche Sprint Challenge GT4 Pro-Am Team Champion
2022 Porsche Sprint Challenge 992 Cup & 991 Cup Champion
2020 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge 2nd Championship
2018 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge 2nd Championship
2016 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champion
2013 IMSA GT3 Cup Challenge Champion
2006 Rolex-24 @ Daytona GT Champion
2004 Grand-Am SGS Class Champion
#122
The Rebel
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Tom,
First off, thanks for sharing your knowledge and info with all of us. I'm loving the idea of the DSC. Instead of going "backwards" to more traditional suspensions, it's well and truly a step forward in that it uses the better technology, well better.
This reminds me of the suspensions of formula 1 cars of the early '90's. Except theirs were oil filled canister driven. The idea is that the car stays flat all the time which improves the aero/downforce and tire patch contact.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in laymen's term and I hope I'm not offending anyone involved in the development of this "box", the DSC is essentially a better/faster/more flexible processor, correct?
Either way brother keep me (all of us) posted.
First off, thanks for sharing your knowledge and info with all of us. I'm loving the idea of the DSC. Instead of going "backwards" to more traditional suspensions, it's well and truly a step forward in that it uses the better technology, well better.
This reminds me of the suspensions of formula 1 cars of the early '90's. Except theirs were oil filled canister driven. The idea is that the car stays flat all the time which improves the aero/downforce and tire patch contact.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in laymen's term and I hope I'm not offending anyone involved in the development of this "box", the DSC is essentially a better/faster/more flexible processor, correct?
Either way brother keep me (all of us) posted.
#123
Hey Tom,
It is so refreshing to read informative posts like yours versus the seemingly never ending stream of self-absorption or worse trolling. Thanks for taking the time as these are the kinds of posts that keep me renewing my membership.
FWIW, you are spot on with regard to your thoughts on the need to cover the fan. Manthey offers a dual air inlet option for the .1 & .2 GT3 in much the same manner as you do except with the stock factory air box. They make a similar opening in the engine lid and match it up with a dremelled out cut on the left side of the air box then seal it with a CF lip on the lid side to match perfectly when it is closed. Part of their process also includes covering the outside edge of the fan in CF much the same you do so it doesn't cause the problems---well done. However, I know of no one in Germany doing what you are planning to release with the suspension for .1's & .2's. That sounds really trick, kudos to you and your team. I hope you sell them over here too. This is exactly what performance oriented GT3 owners who intend to keep their cars for the long run love to read and learn about.
Good Luck going forward!
It is so refreshing to read informative posts like yours versus the seemingly never ending stream of self-absorption or worse trolling. Thanks for taking the time as these are the kinds of posts that keep me renewing my membership.
FWIW, you are spot on with regard to your thoughts on the need to cover the fan. Manthey offers a dual air inlet option for the .1 & .2 GT3 in much the same manner as you do except with the stock factory air box. They make a similar opening in the engine lid and match it up with a dremelled out cut on the left side of the air box then seal it with a CF lip on the lid side to match perfectly when it is closed. Part of their process also includes covering the outside edge of the fan in CF much the same you do so it doesn't cause the problems---well done. However, I know of no one in Germany doing what you are planning to release with the suspension for .1's & .2's. That sounds really trick, kudos to you and your team. I hope you sell them over here too. This is exactly what performance oriented GT3 owners who intend to keep their cars for the long run love to read and learn about.
Good Luck going forward!
#124
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FYI, our outter is completely interchangeable with the OEM outter tie rod. This is so that during a race weekend replacement parts can be easily sourced to finish a race. Anyway, if you are currently using OEM outters you can definitely use TPC. I think we do sell pieces but its not as good a deal as buying it whole. What I do in similar situation is sell my good used parts to recoup money. I hope one way or another you end up using TPC outters so you can just refer to my notes on how the arrangement of the spacers effect the toe curve.
I am in agreeance with you that the stock elasto rear upper mounts very well for what they are.
I am in agreeance with you that the stock elasto rear upper mounts very well for what they are.
I use locking plates on the inside of the toe-links (instead of eccentric), which I believe sets them at the same 6-oclock position, but I need to confirm.
#125
DSC merits own thread
Hi Tom,
As mentioned in person, thank you for sharing so much information in this thread, and for providing technical insights as you very quickly and very impressively develop your car. Kudos and much appreciated!
I think the DSC box has huge potential and could be a game changer. While related to development of your car, I believe it deserves its own thread. If not now, then as soon as it is in full production and the website is active!
Eric
PS I bet I can guess the turbo/GT2 owners; sly dogs, never said a word! ;-)
As mentioned in person, thank you for sharing so much information in this thread, and for providing technical insights as you very quickly and very impressively develop your car. Kudos and much appreciated!
I think the DSC box has huge potential and could be a game changer. While related to development of your car, I believe it deserves its own thread. If not now, then as soon as it is in full production and the website is active!
Eric
PS I bet I can guess the turbo/GT2 owners; sly dogs, never said a word! ;-)
#126
Drifting
Tom, thank you for sharing information in this manner. You are a rare class act. I had never considered TPC before but will now consider it for future purchases. I'm definitely in for the DSC system, it sounds like a perfect solution.
#127
Rennlist Member
Tom, as a relatively new owner of a 997.1 GT3, I too am appreciative of the information you are sharing. I am also interested in the suspension upgrades you are working on.
#128
Burning Brakes
Tom, thanks for continuing the update with your experiences. I have a .1 gt3 and am really glad i am local and have family by jessup. will definitely be visiting your shop in the future.
#129
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Thank you guys for all your kind words! Will certainly keep the updates coming after we preparing a number of local customers car for a Watkins Glen event next week.
The drawings for the rear mount pieces are in the works!
The drawings for the rear mount pieces are in the works!
#130
Drifting
Glad you've decided to make these...I was going to take a stab at it
#131
Drifting
Sorry I missed answering this post before.
The factory Porsche 3-axis accelerometer that comes on the .2 cars cost like $1000!!! There's nothing special about it other the brand name box. It works the same as the accelerometer in our smart phones and wii controllers. We are trying to source and offer the 3-axis accelerometer for under $200. I want to test the first production before selling them so my best guess is about 4-5 weeks.
And I machined another set of parts for the rear mount, gave it to our CAD guy to make a mechanic drawing in SolidWorks. My guess on a batch of rear mount kits to be available is also 4-5 weeks.
The factory Porsche 3-axis accelerometer that comes on the .2 cars cost like $1000!!! There's nothing special about it other the brand name box. It works the same as the accelerometer in our smart phones and wii controllers. We are trying to source and offer the 3-axis accelerometer for under $200. I want to test the first production before selling them so my best guess is about 4-5 weeks.
And I machined another set of parts for the rear mount, gave it to our CAD guy to make a mechanic drawing in SolidWorks. My guess on a batch of rear mount kits to be available is also 4-5 weeks.
#132
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Hi Tom, question for you. On your original setup with the .2 front springs and stock rears, you were running a full soft rear sway and the stiffer TPC front bar. When you went to slightly stiffer rear springs and much stiffer front springs (500/730 I think) did you leave the bars where they are, or will you be softening the front bar to compensate for the springs?
#133
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Hi Tom, question for you. On your original setup with the .2 front springs and stock rears, you were running a full soft rear sway and the stiffer TPC front bar. When you went to slightly stiffer rear springs and much stiffer front springs (500/730 I think) did you leave the bars where they are, or will you be softening the front bar to compensate for the springs?
Last Summer, on my previous 997(450/720 springs, TPC front/.1 rear bar), I tried full soft rear bar for one track event when the track was scorching hot and I was fighting for rear grip in one section of the track. I got the rear grip but it pushed. That particular event was more advantageous to have the rear grip and deal with the push. I have seen on a number of race cars they run full soft rear for most race events, but those drivers are racing and braking into the turns MUCH harder than I am driving in DE's.
To give you an idea on stiffness, TPC front bar is ~50% stiffer than the .1 front bar compared in the middle hole. The .2 front bar is a good bit stiffer than the .1, the .2 bar doesn't have a middle hole as it has 4 holes, it is still a tad softer than the TPC bar overall. Of the 997's that are racing in Continental Tire Sportscar Challenge, Rum Bum Racing is the only team using TPC front bar. We like to think it contributed to their series championship.
The answer for your question- I kept the sway bar settings the same with the new shocks and springs. It is my opinion that these cars(.1 and .2) are undersprung in the front from the factory. These cars will almost always benefit by using stiffer front springs to a point(which is why DSC helps a lot by stiffening the dampening, even with stock springs), especially when the front camber is in or above the 2-degree range. It has been my approach which I learned from TPC Racing to think of the effects from front-to-back and diagonal. To me, stiffer front springs not only help with braking stability, it also helps with coming off the throttle to make the transition smoother and transfers weight better to the rear. Unless of course it is so stiff that it overwhelms the tires. Which is not the case here in my very streetable car.
The next track event in this car is in mid-July. If there will be excessive push on exit, my approach then would be to Not soften the front bar, but instead stiffen the rear bar one hole. Or buy a TPC rear bar which has 4 holes instead of 3 for higher rear bar tuning resolution with the extra hole. Softening the front bar will make the car spin more easily at the limit. Again, this is just my approach. Other teams and drivers have their own approaches and preferences. You have to do what works for you.
Last edited by Tom@TPC Racing; 06-15-2014 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Added last paragraph to follow up to the answer
#134
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Yes is the short answers.
#135
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Hi Tom,
As mentioned in person, thank you for sharing so much information in this thread, and for providing technical insights as you very quickly and very impressively develop your car. Kudos and much appreciated!
I think the DSC box has huge potential and could be a game changer. While related to development of your car, I believe it deserves its own thread. If not now, then as soon as it is in full production and the website is active!
Eric
PS I bet I can guess the turbo/GT2 owners; sly dogs, never said a word! ;-)
As mentioned in person, thank you for sharing so much information in this thread, and for providing technical insights as you very quickly and very impressively develop your car. Kudos and much appreciated!
I think the DSC box has huge potential and could be a game changer. While related to development of your car, I believe it deserves its own thread. If not now, then as soon as it is in full production and the website is active!
Eric
PS I bet I can guess the turbo/GT2 owners; sly dogs, never said a word! ;-)
To follow up to our conversion, the first two cars with DSC aren't the two cars in our region you were think of. Both the 2007 Turbo and 2008 GT2 were TPC development cars. TPC would not do an experiment/development of this magnitude on customers' cars. Once we got the DSC working well on the shop cars we did have a selected group of advanced-level drivers and racers to use DSC and we got data from them to refine the software/functions.
Here's the shops's red 2007 Turbo in Excellence Magazine-
http://www.excellence-mag.com/issues...b#.U53MyfldVZ8
Skip right to the last two pages of the article, the other pages are full of 700+hp blah blah blah. And ignore the comparison to the other 997 Turbo because the suspension setup between a race team and a street tuner wasn't even fair. The 993 Turbo was also a modded street car prepared by a very prominent race team on Hoosier R6's(they were handicapped by running 295 rears, but still Very quick indeed!). The TPC was a fully optioned street car with damptronics, 500/660 springs, TPC front bar and rear toe links, very early version of DSC, Toyo R888's and running with PSM "ON" (because the slip angle was very controllable) posted a stellar time. We found another 1.5 second after the article. This was before the repaved of VIR. This car was sold after the development. Its not in our region anymore.
Last edited by Tom@TPC Racing; 06-15-2014 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Correction on last paragraph due to wrong data