GreenLantern

While the direction may be reversed (i.e., motorsport -> production engine vs. production -> motorsport), am I mistaken in my understanding that the 9A1 engine is currently being used in motorsports in some form right now? And that this will be increasing in the near future?

And if that's correct, then the 9A1 engine is now a motorsports engine, in some form. No?

Guest89

9A1 is used in motorsports, but never campaigned by the factory. The 991 GT3 engine (and trans) are used nowhere in any form of motorsport.

VegasSpeedy

Its debatable if we are in a bubble or not. I have read extensively about this and my conclusion is that we are experiencing the onset of a new paradigm.

The Porsche world is tiny. Even smaller are those of us who read stuff like this on rennlist. Total there are maybe 500-1000 potential, financial able and willing buyers in the US for a 997GT3RS. How can that constitute a bubble?

The key is to not over leverage. Ideally, never used borrowed money.

Its trendy to assume that whenever anything increases in value rapidly to the point where there are more folks that can't afford to buy than can the shut out group always shout: BUBBLE.

I am sure there are people today rushing to the blue light special on canned peas at Wallmart....all the while there is someone watching the hoard of buyers and thinking to himself...can pea bubble. Heck, maybe there area few guys who are buying the peas to flip later on ebay!

I do agree that it would suck if there was rapid depreciation. If you own your car vs financed then the downside pain would be mostly psychological.

Maybe I am wrong.

Lets say that you buy a 997.2 RS for $175k and the bubble pops. Maybe under this impossible scenario it could happen:

The new 991RS is a manual and is priced starting a $175k...oh, and Porsche decides to ditch the 4WS on and introduces 4.5 mezger. In other words Porsche makes the car most of us really wanted for a price that is lower than we expected...then maybe your freshly bought 997.2RS loses value. So what? You (should have) paid cash and now its just doing what every other modern car does...loses value. Any chance this is going to happen. No.

No bubble.

GreenLantern

Ah, good to know. That's unfortunate. Hopefully Porsche changes their stance.

Still, good that it's getting motorsports time. Every extra collective hour that goes by with the 9A1 being raced, is extra hours of proving time. And that's useful.

GreenLantern

I do hope you're right.

But, the unfortunate thing is that in all bubbles, in general, we don't realize we're in them until it's blatantly obvious (and thus, too late).

The RS 4.0 went from selling at or under MSRP two years ago, to around MSRP a year ago, to 1.75x-2x MSRP today.

I realize that's an odd one to use as an example, but it's an extreme example used to illustrate a point.

VegasSpeedy

I am with you...however, you are making the point for no bubble.

At the end of the day these are all first world problems. The question one must ask themselves is:
If I buy this and it goes down in value will that diminish my enjoyment?

In the last 7 years I have sold out of cars when they showed signs of 'depreciation ahead'. I hate depreciation. Especially in toys. I pay cash for everything. The FANTASTIC aspect of being a Porsche nerd is that you can pick up a very sweet 911 and over time it will at least pay for itself. Maybe it only increases in cost at the same rate as inflation. That is WORLDS better than virtually any other modern car. BTW, the real game is in the pre-95 air cooled 911s.

GreenLantern

I think we're both in agreement.

But, I don't see how a car doubling in value relative to MSRP is a point for no bubble?

In the same time the Ferrari F40 went from trading around $750k to over $1.2m. The McLaren F1 went from $3.5m to $8.45m to over $10m.

Isn't that what you call a bubble? Especially given that the increase occurred over ~2 years? I call that a bubble.

But, yes, in the end, I think you and I are in complete agreement.

LooseMarble

IMO it's only a bubble if it bursts...so no way to say for certain right now if this is a bubble or not. We won't know unless the bottom falls out. People can guess, like everyone in this thread. That is why there are people on both sides of any recent transaction at recent price points.

GreenLantern

Sad, but true.

maomao911

you can't compare car values to stock prices. The stock of a particular company you hold versus what other's hold has the same current value regardless when you bought and how much you paid for it. Just because one car sold at record prices doesn't mean your car will also sell at the same price, time of sale, condition of car, and buyer profile are all different. The 997 GT3/RS are expensive today is mostly a result of QE. The price will stay the same nominally when the money supply tightens and dollar value goes up, and it will drop when the next crash happens, and bounce back when the market is flooded with money again with the next rebound. It's just simple economics. I think you guys being owners or prospective owners are thinking about it a bit too much. Buy it if you want to drive it or look at it or however you want to appreciate it, don't buy it because you think it's a wise economic decision.

Opo

Agree 100% !!
Buy it and drive the sh*t out of it, after all aren't this cars made especially for that?

BBMGT3

QE has turned everything into an asset class.

People are buying up almost anything and calling it an investment.

People who can afford to buy 3-4 RS's and hold them generally have several million to play with anyway, so a few hundred k $ isn't going to make a difference. Kind of like someone who buys diamonds as investments. Or art. Yeah, art. Take a look at those prices....

mooty

ah, got it. with regard to bubbles, i misspoke. i was saying really just buy what you like and drive it. investment in car... maybe yes maybe no, but if you must invest, invest is something else, RE, equity, fixed income, commodity, illegal drugs, human trafficking, though i am a newbie in the last two items, i am certain they have better return than cars..

"I think you guys being owners or prospective owners are thinking about it a bit too much.
===> you are right on my friend. thinking is futile. just do. brains are for kids to take SAT. i have'nt used my brain since i graduated. witness my typing skills.

usctrojanGT3

I love driving my RS and over maintain it so that it will last for a long, long time. Best car that I have ever owned. I see her wide hips every evening when I get home from work and think to myself that all the hard work was worth it. I don't really think about resale as I've always thought about cars as being depreciating assets so if I end up selling it for that same or more than I paid for it then it's just a cherry on top of the smiles I get every time I drive the car.

brake dust

The 9a1 may be raced by some people - but not by Porsche Motorsport. The Cayenne engine was raced too.