BBMGT3

I've done a quick "hourly" rate calculation. Would you say it tallies with reality? Am thinking of making the same move:

1. Gearbox $10k/ 30hrs ~ $333 / hr
2. Tires $2300 / 3 hrs ~ $766 / hr
3. Engine $30k / 80 hrs ~ $375 / hr
4. Brakes - $1K / 3 hrs ~ 333 / hr
5. Fuel $150 / hr
6. Track support $100 / hr

Total ~ $2,000 / hr

Plus... entry fees, transport to track, other components (drive shafts, wheel bearings, uprights, speed sensor, gearshift cables, and whatever else that breaks on the car). Call that $1000 / hr.

Plus... the cost of the car itself ($150K if you're lucky)

Plus... track insurance ($1500 per weekend)

Assuming 4 hours track time a race weekend... 4 x ($2000 + 1000) + 1500 = $10,000, plus depreciated car cost, call that 5,000 per weekend for 10 weekends a year (mixed), 3 years schedule

Total $15,000 a weekend.

Sound about right? Or am I way off?

I've been thinking about making the same move. Renting a seat with a team is too hit or miss unless you pay real money, then $15K a weekend looks CHEAP.

Plus when you own your own car you can go at your own pace, DE, track days, participate in some enduro somewhere etc.

But by my logic don't do it unless you're able to float $250K for car acquisition and slush fund to run the car.

Couldn't agree more with you about the driving. The Cup does everything you think it should. The street cars feel heavy, wobbly, unresponsive by comparison.

Takes 4-5 laps in Cup before you are faster than your street equivalent (yes, even on R-comps). Then you are talking 4-8s per min faster (depending on circuit / tire). Going back into my street gt3 afterwards felt like I could do my old best laptime one-handed....

TRAKCAR

I think you are on the high side, for high level, winning races, but yes.

Without depreciation my math is about $750-$1000.00 (depending on travel distance) per day to do DE, we had a thread a year or so back doing the math...

Here is my math for tires alone:

Tires cost say based on 40 track days a year like I did the last 3 years.

RA1 / NT01:
$900.00 a set shaved, delivered.
The fronts last 8 days the rear 4.

Cost for the year: $4500 RA1 for the rear, $2250.00 for the front = $6,750.00 PER YEAR

Slicks:
Cost for the year: $1800 per set per weekend = $36,000.00 PER YEAR

They may last another day, but they blow and get so slow you're getting passed by guys running R compound after the first day, each session your slicks are a little crappier, you need to also adjust your driving and that is a bigger drop off than the RA1 NT01 combo.

Slicks are also harder on bearings, uprights, brakes, transmission, clutch, PP etc. Cars break more on grippier tires.

The RA NT01 combo from fresh to cord, same tire under 60F same tire all session almost. Over 80F you start losing about 1 second the next 4 laps and another second a lap after that, if you overdrive them like we always do.

An intermediate driver would not notice and the tires would last about 50% longer even. I see many cars on slicks that would not be able to wring out an RA1 / NT01 combo and they are wasting $$.

The difference in tire budget is $30K
Race cars are expensive, even more so when you find out how many hours a year they actually sit in the car. Then do the math per hour LOL.

Eventually I will run out of RA1's but I have enough through 2014/15...

Leigh2

"I've done a quick "hourly" rate calculation. Would you say it tallies with reality? Am thinking of making the same move:

1. Gearbox $10k/ 30hrs ~ $333 / hr
2. Tires $2300 / 3 hrs ~ $766 / hr
3. Engine $30k / 80 hrs ~ $375 / hr
4. Brakes - $1K / 3 hrs ~ 333 / hr
5. Fuel $150 / hr
6. Track support $100 / hr

Total ~ $2,000 / hr

1. Gearbox, yes that's in the ballpark if it's treated nicely and it likes you

2. They are relatively competitive for up to 8 heat cycles although certainly fastest in the first 4. After the 8 cycles they still last a long time but will be up to 2 seconds or more slower. I have a friend running a 6 cup in DE's and he's getting well over 20 heat cycles per set and still the fastest car out there. I use one set per weekend and end up discarding them with about 10 HC's on them. I think the better number would be $500/hour.

3. Engine. A friend buzzed his 60+ hour 7.1cup motor and it was not happy. PMNA bill was $24k. It can go higher, plus R & R, so your number is in the ball park for sure.

4. Brakes: Way to high. I'm getting (estimate) 8-10 hours from the front pads after which they're only 1/2 worn but starting to get mushy so I change them. Front rotors (I'm switching to Girodisc) last a long time, probably 20+ hours and more for the rears. I'd estimate the cost at closer to $220/hour. I'm finding that my braking technique is changing, I'm soft on the brakes to begin with then applying more pressure but then easing off slowly as I trail brake further into the corners. Much easier with the better feel from the manual brakes and seems to be easier on the pad/rotor life. Of course that's also at Miller which is relatively easy on brakes

5 fuel. Using Miller full track as an example I'd be doing 3.0 minute lap times on the 4.7 mile course so at 6mpg it would be .78 gal/lap or roughly .25 gal/minute of racing. Same carbon footprint as a locomotive Less of course for all the pre-grid and rambling around the paddock and pace laps etc. I'd say closer to .2 gal/minute overall so @ $10/gal it's $120/hour.

6. Track support is about right if you calculate 3 hours/day which is about right. Some teams charge more but generally worth every penny. I make sure I get a chassis setup every race as it's covered by the track support charge if done on the weekend. The weekend charge also includes a nut and bolt tightening after the event.

So we're at $1648/hour just to get in and drive the thing not including entry fees and transportation/hotels. I live 1100 miles from the track

Maintenance of course is another biggie as we haven't done an oil change yet or broken anything. I'm guessing again but I'd estimate for a 30 hour season you're looking at an additional hourly amount for regular maintenance. This is where buying a good car to begin with comes in, but I'd estimate another $300/hour just to be on the safe side. So this puts us at ~2000/hour to get in and drive and another $500/hour to get to the track and live there for the weekend so $2500/hour overall and about $4500 cash out of pocket for every weekend... Best not to show these numbers to the wifey...

Adding this up makes me want to consider golfing as a hobby, if I wasn't so ADD I'd try it...

M3EvoBR

For brakes try PFC, no more mushy pedal and you will be able to run the entire pad to the back plate.
Rotors, same thing...

fleadh

I'll vouch for PFC.. here's our pad after 7 hours at Sebring this year:



Performance wasn't great though...

I normally run the stock/factory Pagid Greens on my Cup for testing as I like the feel and bite. I replace them after 2 days max.

-mike

Leigh2

PMNA rotors and I have a supply of Pagids I'll have to go through before switching...but worth a try. The pedal isn't really bad after a couple of weekends but better with new and a quick bleed. The PMNA drilled rotors are doing the usual thing and cracking long before they're actually worn out...

M3EvoBR

I honestly don't know of anyone that tried PFC and went back to pagids...

Leigh2

I've tried PFC in the past on track cars and quite liked them, I'll try on the cup too but probably next season now as I have enough pads and rotors for this year already. Thanks for the tip..

mikymu

Love your metallic brake pads

I really like my endless pads and so far they last 3X longer than factory Pagid. This is my endless after 1 year of club racing use

M3EvoBR

That's impressive. What is the cost on a set of Endless ?
1K per axle ?

cbweaver1

Thanks for going out on the risk curve and sharing the facts and figures with us. Great Post.

mikymu

They are about $1100 for a complete set - front and back. I have used Pagid before and they don't last longer than 4-5 track events. I have endless for over 1 year now and they look barely used and braking is still very good

M3EvoBR

That's great value for sure !

mikymu

Yup. Cup car running cost can be lowered if you use the "right" parts and mechanic. There are plenty of people out there with open arms willing to take your hard earn money

malmasri

A few of my friends have taken the Cup car plunge and they agree with what you say....there is no better, however the cost makes it prohibitive for most who do DE even in an expensive street car....It would be interesting to see if they still feel the same after a few seasons and a heavily trimmed bank account....
For now, I will enjoy rides in a cup
Thanks for posting