View Poll Results: Responsible Individual Net Worth to own a $100-$150K Car?
$400K
24
13.87%
$500K
10
5.78%
$700K
11
6.36%
$900K
2
1.16%
$1M +
126
72.83%
Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll
Responsible Net Worth for Owning a $100K-$150K Car?
03-01-2013, 04:27 PM
#136
Three Wheelin'
My girlfriend is depreciating in value as she gets older too ................ Must be a link here!
03-01-2013, 05:42 PM
#137
Drifting
Safe to say you're using cash on cash return as your primary investment criteria?
The premise that it's wise or responsible to put more towards a house and somehow risky or foolhardy to place an emphasis on cars or other toys is based on the conventional wisdom that real estate = appreciating asset and car = depreciating asset. Since this relationship is less certain now, it's more of a values judgment.
You could live in a teepee and drive a Ferrari 250 GTO for all I care.
The premise that it's wise or responsible to put more towards a house and somehow risky or foolhardy to place an emphasis on cars or other toys is based on the conventional wisdom that real estate = appreciating asset and car = depreciating asset. Since this relationship is less certain now, it's more of a values judgment.
You could live in a teepee and drive a Ferrari 250 GTO for all I care.
My analysis of how to spend my money (also as how to live my life) covers cars AND house. All this talk of "if you get fired, lose your job, something bad happens" etc. is covered by the fact that ALL of my big purchases (cars AND houses) are covered with cashflow. I call it "getting to zero". My non-job, passive income monthly net cashflow is equal or greater than all of my monthly obligations (including car payments, house payments, utility bills, food, entertainment, misc. etc). Lose my job. Okay. No problem. I don't actually have one anyway.
03-01-2013, 05:44 PM
#138
Drifting
Well..yes and no..
1) US Housing prices during the crisis..especially luxury houses..had huge trade offs..I know of one case where the price had to be lowered by 800k to get it sold..this was however in 2009..whether the prices are back up to pre 2008 levels in the US..I dont know..Im not an expert on this. If someone would have bought that house in 2007 and also in 2007 a GT3RS..and selling both in 2009..the Porsche would have been the better investement..
2) Yes, on average a house is appreciating..but even that - I think - will reverse - at least for some houses. Middle classes in Europe and US are eroding..so there will be a consequence in 30 years..normal 911s will also become cheaper..and I dont see miracle that US and EU will be out of the problems in 5 years..
3) but its all about choices..,,isnt it..I would be more happy with an 1Mill house and 5 Porsches..while others would take the prius and buy a bigger 1,5Mill. house..but Mcdonalds is also cheaper then good healthy food..this discussion would never end. I personally would just not advise to buy cars on loan..as you corretly said..since they mostly depreciate..and paying interest for something which is loosing money is..
1) US Housing prices during the crisis..especially luxury houses..had huge trade offs..I know of one case where the price had to be lowered by 800k to get it sold..this was however in 2009..whether the prices are back up to pre 2008 levels in the US..I dont know..Im not an expert on this. If someone would have bought that house in 2007 and also in 2007 a GT3RS..and selling both in 2009..the Porsche would have been the better investement..
2) Yes, on average a house is appreciating..but even that - I think - will reverse - at least for some houses. Middle classes in Europe and US are eroding..so there will be a consequence in 30 years..normal 911s will also become cheaper..and I dont see miracle that US and EU will be out of the problems in 5 years..
3) but its all about choices..,,isnt it..I would be more happy with an 1Mill house and 5 Porsches..while others would take the prius and buy a bigger 1,5Mill. house..but Mcdonalds is also cheaper then good healthy food..this discussion would never end. I personally would just not advise to buy cars on loan..as you corretly said..since they mostly depreciate..and paying interest for something which is loosing money is..
03-01-2013, 05:46 PM
#139
Race Director
Yes, cash on cash return is my ONLY criteria.
My analysis of how to spend my money (also as how to live my life) covers cars AND house. All this talk of "if you get fired, lose your job, something bad happens" etc. is covered by the fact that ALL of my big purchases (cars AND houses) are covered with cashflow. I call it "getting to zero". My non-job, passive income monthly net cashflow is equal or greater than all of my monthly obligations (including car payments, house payments, utility bills, food, entertainment, misc. etc). Lose my job. Okay. No problem. I don't actually have one anyway.
My analysis of how to spend my money (also as how to live my life) covers cars AND house. All this talk of "if you get fired, lose your job, something bad happens" etc. is covered by the fact that ALL of my big purchases (cars AND houses) are covered with cashflow. I call it "getting to zero". My non-job, passive income monthly net cashflow is equal or greater than all of my monthly obligations (including car payments, house payments, utility bills, food, entertainment, misc. etc). Lose my job. Okay. No problem. I don't actually have one anyway.
03-01-2013, 06:07 PM
#140
Rennlist Member
from investments perspective i am not sure it is wise to expect domestic real estate market to improve or even remain the same. when 80% of general population efficiently lowers their standard of living every year for entire last decade i do not think neither home prices nor rents will be able to keep up with (real) inflation.
it is wise to invest into real estate where blue collar population is on the rise. in the USA it is in a steady decline. so, decide for yourself.
for me any car above $50k mark is a stupid toy. i can afford one but despite of how much i am worth i am not spending on another big toy right now. it is better to move money into different sector, medical or pharma, or anything else that still is going steady enough.
just looked at my stuff - RYOIX made exactly 32% since 2/21/12. i did not see any houses in my area to do that.
it is wise to invest into real estate where blue collar population is on the rise. in the USA it is in a steady decline. so, decide for yourself.
for me any car above $50k mark is a stupid toy. i can afford one but despite of how much i am worth i am not spending on another big toy right now. it is better to move money into different sector, medical or pharma, or anything else that still is going steady enough.
just looked at my stuff - RYOIX made exactly 32% since 2/21/12. i did not see any houses in my area to do that.
03-01-2013, 06:22 PM
#141
Burning Brakes
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What happens in the US - if consumers simply stop consuming ? (because of other reasons, higher taxes etc) What I wanted to say - even if the US economy shrinks by -10'%..this will noct change anything to a price of GT2RS, F40, or Porsche 904 in the US..there will always be enough richt people outside willing to spend this money (new buyers from China or Russia). But if the economy shrinks by 10% in the US..then one will have a very serious problem of selling a 997 or 991.
What I was trying to say, some cars will very likely loose much less than others..its like with real estate..that you know well. Some (good) locations will always be rented..even if the economy screws up..but for the largest part..
Anyway, were getting to far away from the subject here..lets enjoy our GT3s and GT2s..Im like you..also two 997 GT models..
03-01-2013, 06:27 PM
#142
Burning Brakes
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from investments perspective i am not sure it is wise to expect domestic real estate market to improve or even remain the same. when 80% of general population efficiently lowers their standard of living every year for entire last decade i do not think neither home prices nor rents will be able to keep up with (real) inflation.
it is wise to invest into real estate where blue collar population is on the rise. in the USA it is in a steady decline. so, decide for yourself.
for me any car above $50k mark is a stupid toy. i can afford one but despite of how much i am worth i am not spending on another big toy right now. it is better to move money into different sector, medical or pharma, or anything else that still is going steady enough.
just looked at my stuff - RYOIX made exactly 32% since 2/21/12. i did not see any houses in my area to do that.
it is wise to invest into real estate where blue collar population is on the rise. in the USA it is in a steady decline. so, decide for yourself.
for me any car above $50k mark is a stupid toy. i can afford one but despite of how much i am worth i am not spending on another big toy right now. it is better to move money into different sector, medical or pharma, or anything else that still is going steady enough.
just looked at my stuff - RYOIX made exactly 32% since 2/21/12. i did not see any houses in my area to do that.
Fully agree..but dont forget on the other side that richer people are getting richer..so for them as I said before..an F40 will be an F40..prices of these things wont change much.
For the rest I fully agree..what you describe is happening already in a few countries in Europe. Today I read that in the Netherlands housing prices came down by 30% since 2008..and the Netherlands was one of the most stable economies years ago (!). Im not talking about Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal..these countries are in a much worse situation.
But we are all in the same boat - at least the EU and USA...China is sitting in their own boat..what the US and EU loose..they will gain it..
03-01-2013, 07:16 PM
#143
Drifting
Fully agree..but dont forget on the other side that richer people are getting richer..so for them as I said before..an F40 will be an F40..prices of these things wont change much.
For the rest I fully agree..what you describe is happening already in a few countries in Europe. Today I read that in the Netherlands housing prices came down by 30% since 2008..and the Netherlands was one of the most stable economies years ago (!). Im not talking about Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal..these countries are in a much worse situation.
But we are all in the same boat - at least the EU and USA...China is sitting in their own boat..what the US and EU loose..they will gain it..
For the rest I fully agree..what you describe is happening already in a few countries in Europe. Today I read that in the Netherlands housing prices came down by 30% since 2008..and the Netherlands was one of the most stable economies years ago (!). Im not talking about Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal..these countries are in a much worse situation.
But we are all in the same boat - at least the EU and USA...China is sitting in their own boat..what the US and EU loose..they will gain it..
And when the economy is tanking, rental demand goes UP since less percent of households can afford to buy.
03-01-2013, 09:01 PM
#145
Race Director
doesn't matter if underlying prices of rental properties go up or down. When they go up, refy at a higher loan value and use tax-free cash to buy another rental property. When real rental property values decrease, take advantage and buy more at depressed prices.
And when the economy is tanking, rental demand goes UP since less percent of households can afford to buy.
And when the economy is tanking, rental demand goes UP since less percent of households can afford to buy.
03-01-2013, 09:07 PM
#146
Three Wheelin'
Below link to BASE represents nearly a 250% increase in the money supply. In other words monetary inflation has been nearly 250% in the last 5 years.
I think this means that $1 in 2007 is worth $.40 today.
Notice any price inflation at the stores? What's the affect on savings?
St. Louis Adjusted Monetary Base (BASE)
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?s[1][id]=BASE
I think this means that $1 in 2007 is worth $.40 today.
Notice any price inflation at the stores? What's the affect on savings?
St. Louis Adjusted Monetary Base (BASE)
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?s[1][id]=BASE
03-02-2013, 01:41 AM
#150
GT3 player par excellence
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