Laguna at 90db now for most of 2013...
12-15-2012, 12:18 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
You can buy a $200 box that will keep your valves permanently closed and you'll pass...
It's not the exhaust making you fail, its the ecu.
12-15-2012, 02:32 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
People should take their cars and drive them on the otherside of the hill aroud the houses with a a big bumer sticker that says 90Db can raise your taxes,this may get these 7 home owners more determined to shut the track down especially if you are reving your car in on the streets, then they turn it into a park and the county needs to collect the shortfall of the revenue by raising taxes one more time.....I love CA when I visit, but would never live there unless I am a goverment employee.
Note to self: One more trip this year to LS for the sake of goodtimes
Note to self: One more trip this year to LS for the sake of goodtimes
12-15-2012, 03:01 PM
#19
You're so to the point, Mooty, but absolutely right. Here are some of my thoughts:
1) Find someone with good insight knowledge of Laguna/Monterey County dealings and WILLINGNESS to help get the facts and status of things. From that decide on a smart (effective) strategy on how to "fight" this sound issue.
2)a) Probably most effective but hardest to probably impossible to do:
Have one of our track organizers start off/lead (i.e.TMR Survey etc.) but I'm not sure how far they're willing to take this.
They have a business to run and they'd be cutting off their own revenue if they say don't sign up track days with LS. In that case, we then would need probably support them financially on the other two NorCal tracks (Sonoma and T-Hill) in some manner to make up for the LS revenue loss . Like an additional fee added on for each sign-up at SP and TH to go into the "KEEP LAGUNA SOUND" fund? Maybe that could be the slogan of our new LS coalition?
2)b) Easier to accomplish BUT not very effective:
Have individual drivers "boycott" Laguna to send a message. Unfortunately, we (on RL) are in the minority of people worried about this compared to ALL folks doing DE and we would leave very little impact behind.
Actually, Laguna would probably be happy to get rid of us with our GT3's...It's even made more difficult by the fact that the large national track organizer, who attracts a sizable number of "new" drivers to our tracks does not seem willing to fight this -and they are a large revenue source for LS!!
3) It's actually worse than it seems on the db level going forward. While we're at 90db for most of 2013 -and we think that's bad-, the County actually thinks they are doing us a favor -no kidding- by not keeping the sound at between 88db and 85db for of many of those (formerly) Barber spots/days...
So, I think, any challenge we mount needs to be directed to the future for it not to get any WORSE...
I agree. Unfortunately, one can't pay the bills "on principle" alone...
Sorry, didn't mean you weren't supportive. I just meant "let's not celebrate yet" just because TMR said they were going to send out a member survey. And you're right (see above), we need a leader with knowledge and clout.
Many of us will, Pete, but unfortunately I think that's not enough to save the track...
1) Find someone with good insight knowledge of Laguna/Monterey County dealings and WILLINGNESS to help get the facts and status of things. From that decide on a smart (effective) strategy on how to "fight" this sound issue.
2)a) Probably most effective but hardest to probably impossible to do:
Have one of our track organizers start off/lead (i.e.TMR Survey etc.) but I'm not sure how far they're willing to take this.
They have a business to run and they'd be cutting off their own revenue if they say don't sign up track days with LS. In that case, we then would need probably support them financially on the other two NorCal tracks (Sonoma and T-Hill) in some manner to make up for the LS revenue loss . Like an additional fee added on for each sign-up at SP and TH to go into the "KEEP LAGUNA SOUND" fund? Maybe that could be the slogan of our new LS coalition?
2)b) Easier to accomplish BUT not very effective:
Have individual drivers "boycott" Laguna to send a message. Unfortunately, we (on RL) are in the minority of people worried about this compared to ALL folks doing DE and we would leave very little impact behind.
Actually, Laguna would probably be happy to get rid of us with our GT3's...It's even made more difficult by the fact that the large national track organizer, who attracts a sizable number of "new" drivers to our tracks does not seem willing to fight this -and they are a large revenue source for LS!!
3) It's actually worse than it seems on the db level going forward. While we're at 90db for most of 2013 -and we think that's bad-, the County actually thinks they are doing us a favor -no kidding- by not keeping the sound at between 88db and 85db for of many of those (formerly) Barber spots/days...
So, I think, any challenge we mount needs to be directed to the future for it not to get any WORSE...
I agree. Unfortunately, one can't pay the bills "on principle" alone...
Sorry, didn't mean you weren't supportive. I just meant "let's not celebrate yet" just because TMR said they were going to send out a member survey. And you're right (see above), we need a leader with knowledge and clout.
Many of us will, Pete, but unfortunately I think that's not enough to save the track...
12-15-2012, 03:08 PM
#20
Nordschleife Master
Sorry, didn't mean you weren't supportive. I just meant "let's not celebrate yet" just because TMR said they were going to send out a member survey. And you're right (see above), we need a leader with knowledge and clout.
Many of us will, Pete, but unfortunately I think that's not enough to save the track...
12-15-2012, 04:20 PM
#21
No one will "save the track". It's gone, dead, and was killed by local development and homeowners. If you think you will fight that battle and win it, then you simply don't understand the battlefield. I'm on record for a while now on this forum predicting its demise.
Furthermore, it's not worth "saving" even if it could be done.
Let it go, focus on a real, durable, forward-looking solution. Initiate a movement to build something new. Onward, upward...
Furthermore, it's not worth "saving" even if it could be done.
Let it go, focus on a real, durable, forward-looking solution. Initiate a movement to build something new. Onward, upward...
12-15-2012, 04:27 PM
#22
Racer
Somewhat tongue in cheek - everyone chip in to form an LLC or some such body, buy a house at there and go to the meetings that these 7 people are at and just have a...spirited conversation with them 
Seriously this sucks, I was looking forward to hitting Laguna in my new (to me) RS as soon as possible, even if the vacuum cap trick keeps the car under 90 I may have to boycott out of principle. I've gone to MotoGP and ALMS the past 6 years there too (always Mazda or BMW corral'd it also!) I will stop going to those in person too
Seriously this sucks, I was looking forward to hitting Laguna in my new (to me) RS as soon as possible, even if the vacuum cap trick keeps the car under 90 I may have to boycott out of principle. I've gone to MotoGP and ALMS the past 6 years there too (always Mazda or BMW corral'd it also!) I will stop going to those in person too
12-15-2012, 05:01 PM
#23
Easy for you to say, Pete
You're up in Reno and done with your Porsches
retired, no CL stuff, no Laguna worries, a track nearby...
Us Bay Area people are not so lucky and admit it, Laguna is a nice track if you take away the sound issue (I know you don't like walls
).
It just makes no sense to just give up... Also, there's enough business going on at LS in 2013 (one major organizer just bought a bunch a slots...) for it to stay open for a while. Many of us just like for it to stay open at 92db, that's all.
And BTW, I don't believe LS IS a LOST cause. All it takes is a few major organizer to step up (and stand up) to LS/Monterey County Mgmt and they'll be hurting financially. That community down there gets a LOT of revenue that people bring in on those 2-3 day weekend. They just haven't quite realized it and we could help them understand, couldn't we?
For instance, what if the PCA (GG and LP region incl. Cherry etc.) had the guts to "demand" 92db or else... Could be interesting.
I know you like your desert track and want to build a new one... well, why don't we give the ones we have a shot? I think there's enough support, we'll see...
You're up in Reno and done with your Porsches retired, no CL stuff, no Laguna worries, a track nearby... Us Bay Area people are not so lucky and admit it, Laguna is a nice track if you take away the sound issue (I know you don't like walls
).It just makes no sense to just give up... Also, there's enough business going on at LS in 2013 (one major organizer just bought a bunch a slots...) for it to stay open for a while. Many of us just like for it to stay open at 92db, that's all
.And BTW, I don't believe LS IS a LOST cause. All it takes is a few major organizer to step up (and stand up) to LS/Monterey County Mgmt and they'll be hurting financially. That community down there gets a LOT of revenue that people bring in on those 2-3 day weekend. They just haven't quite realized it and we could help them understand, couldn't we?
For instance, what if the PCA (GG and LP region incl. Cherry etc.) had the guts to "demand" 92db or else... Could be interesting.
I know you like your desert track and want to build a new one... well, why don't we give the ones we have a shot? I think there's enough support, we'll see...
12-15-2012, 05:59 PM
#24
Nordschleife Master
Easy for you to say, Pete You're up in Reno and done with your Porsches retired, no CL stuff, no Laguna worries, a track nearby...
Us Bay Area people are not so lucky and admit it, Laguna is a nice track if you take away the sound issue (I know you don't like walls).
It just makes no sense to just give up... Also, there's enough business going on at LS in 2013 (one major organizer just bought a bunch a slots...) for it to stay open for a while. Many of us just like for it to stay open at 92db, that's all.
And BTW, I don't believe LS IS a LOST cause. All it takes is a few major organizer to step up (and stand up) to LS/Monterey County Mgmt and they'll be hurting financially. That community down there gets a LOT of revenue that people bring in on those 2-3 day weekend. They just haven't quite realized it and we could help them understand, couldn't we?
For instance, what if the PCA (GG and LP region incl. Cherry etc.) had the guts to "demand" 92db or else... Could be interesting.
I know you like your desert track and want to build a new one... well, why don't we give the ones we have a shot? I think there's enough support, we'll see...
You're up in Reno and done with your Porsches retired, no CL stuff, no Laguna worries, a track nearby... Us Bay Area people are not so lucky and admit it, Laguna is a nice track if you take away the sound issue (I know you don't like walls
).It just makes no sense to just give up... Also, there's enough business going on at LS in 2013 (one major organizer just bought a bunch a slots...) for it to stay open for a while. Many of us just like for it to stay open at 92db, that's all
.And BTW, I don't believe LS IS a LOST cause. All it takes is a few major organizer to step up (and stand up) to LS/Monterey County Mgmt and they'll be hurting financially. That community down there gets a LOT of revenue that people bring in on those 2-3 day weekend. They just haven't quite realized it and we could help them understand, couldn't we?
For instance, what if the PCA (GG and LP region incl. Cherry etc.) had the guts to "demand" 92db or else... Could be interesting.
I know you like your desert track and want to build a new one... well, why don't we give the ones we have a shot? I think there's enough support, we'll see...
12-15-2012, 06:03 PM
#25
Drifting
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If you are even remotely serious about keeping Laguna "as-is", then let me suggest the following:
Take 5 minutes of your time to do a Google search for the county office. Call _and _ write a letter, explaining that you are frustrated that even at 92db your 100% stock brand new car cannot pass the sound restriction. Tell them how many days per year you will no longer be staying in a local hotel because of a further db reduction. Or dining in local restaurants. Or buying gas.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. And money talks. Make your voice heard. Don't think TMR or the Porsche club will do it for you.
Take 5 minutes of your time to do a Google search for the county office. Call _and _ write a letter, explaining that you are frustrated that even at 92db your 100% stock brand new car cannot pass the sound restriction. Tell them how many days per year you will no longer be staying in a local hotel because of a further db reduction. Or dining in local restaurants. Or buying gas.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. And money talks. Make your voice heard. Don't think TMR or the Porsche club will do it for you.
12-15-2012, 06:15 PM
#26
Absolutely true, Lars. And your suggestion needs to be part of the overall strategy.
Unfortunately that alone isn't going to cut it, we just don't have enough "squeaky wheels" to make a dent into the issue
we're in the minority, remember? (see my post above).
We need BOTH, customer/clientele input AND support from major organizers like the PCA, Cherry's, BMW/Audi/Chevy/Lotus club and ideally our own private groups like TMR, YPTD, NCRC etc.
Also, sadly enough, HOD is out, they just bought 10 slots at 90db
Unfortunately that alone isn't going to cut it
, we just don't have enough "squeaky wheels" to make a dent into the issue we're in the minority, remember? (see my post above). We need BOTH, customer/clientele input AND support from major organizers like the PCA, Cherry's, BMW/Audi/Chevy/Lotus club and ideally our own private groups like TMR, YPTD, NCRC etc.
Also, sadly enough, HOD is out, they just bought 10 slots at 90db
12-15-2012, 07:52 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
12-15-2012, 11:56 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
Let go of Laguna? Seriously? Past the DE and private track days, it sure is valuable for real racing and Rennsport Reunion, and, you know, that thing that happens every August. That thing that helps sell out all the hotels, fill the restaurants, etc.
I wish I had more time to devote to this, but I do not right now. That said, saving that race track is a worthwhile endeavor. Personally, I like Sears Point better, but Laguna has an absolutely magical history and remains one of the best tracks in North America for actually watching a race.
My suspicion is that the strongest coalition will be one that involves Monterey Motorsport Reunion, ALMS/Grand-Am, Porsche, PCA, PMNA, etc. —*as well as local merchants and hotel chains. If they decide that loss of revenue that keeps Laguna afloat during the year will be the demise of this venue, one or more may become strong allies of TMR and/or other entities, and they'll have more pull with the people making these decisions than DE folks.
Personally, I thought 92 db was too low and 95 more like it...or a mix of days available at different pricing?
pete
I wish I had more time to devote to this, but I do not right now. That said, saving that race track is a worthwhile endeavor. Personally, I like Sears Point better, but Laguna has an absolutely magical history and remains one of the best tracks in North America for actually watching a race.
My suspicion is that the strongest coalition will be one that involves Monterey Motorsport Reunion, ALMS/Grand-Am, Porsche, PCA, PMNA, etc. —*as well as local merchants and hotel chains. If they decide that loss of revenue that keeps Laguna afloat during the year will be the demise of this venue, one or more may become strong allies of TMR and/or other entities, and they'll have more pull with the people making these decisions than DE folks.
Personally, I thought 92 db was too low and 95 more like it...or a mix of days available at different pricing?
pete
12-16-2012, 12:17 AM
#30
Hi Pete! You mentioned a few "high-paying" clients. Do you have any connections to any of those? If so, maybe you can work your magic? The various parties are re-negotiating the "general use permit" for Laguna right now, I believe. I was "bought" from the government some time ago... While all the surrounding homeowners had to sign a disclosure agreement about "knowing" there's a racetrack close by, everyone is in total FEAR that all hell brakes loose if the renegotiated permit says anything different than a 92db max. Organizers pay a hefty premium like $20K plus/day to get this to 100db+. While 92db sucks, it's still better than 85db or no track at all...