Roll call Sebring Nov 3-4 with Chin
11-04-2012, 02:42 PM
#137
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All this is pure conjecture, but this is what I see in the video, along with the observation of the amplitude and timing of the control inputs that you make.
Bishops is an odd place, with a topography that is more complex than it first appears.
Your entry is good, although you could be more aggressive with the first curb on the left. You're almost overshooting the entry because of late steering input timing.
This causes you to wash out wider than optimal (in less than a purpose-built competition car) in the middle, causing you to go far over the central crown that divides the track in the direction of travel into the off-camber right side.
To bring it back over to the left to line up for braking into T15, you come up and over the crown, adding a TRACE MORE steering input with LESS than 40-45% throttle and the combination of these three things cause the back to step out.
You're so far left at the end that as the car yaws left, you have nowhere to go but put the left front in the dirt, which catches the car and you out.
The way to prevent that would have been perhaps to have slightly more positive throttle before braking and/or open the steering to give up where you WANTED to place the car (on the far left) and just enter T15 from mid-track, filing that away for experience or just not travel quite so right of center in the middle of Bishops so that you felt you had to add more steering input left.
Only other "from far-away advice" is the recommendation to have locked it down with the brakes SOONER, so the incident would have ended earlier and having covered a lesser distance.
Also, unless it was clear I was going to hit something, I would recommend keeping your hands on the steering wheel WHEN you locked it down. The violence of the wheel is due to the tires rolling with the pitch and direction changes, and could be avoided by locking the brakes down...
Glad you escaped unscathed!
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-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
11-04-2012, 03:07 PM
#138
Appreciate your input. That was the fastest I have entered Bishops and my timing was off. (didn't know the right side was off camber!)
I've looked at my data and I kept a steady throttle but closer to 34-35%.
I let go of the wheel because I quickly remembered a couple of GT3's that have been totaled there and didn't know that there was that much room behind 14. I was preparing for the worst.
I need to take smaller bites at speed through there.
I'm not experienced enough to save that but after watching some of the video's on this thread, a more experienced hand may have saved her.
Darrick
I've looked at my data and I kept a steady throttle but closer to 34-35%.
I let go of the wheel because I quickly remembered a couple of GT3's that have been totaled there and didn't know that there was that much room behind 14. I was preparing for the worst.
I need to take smaller bites at speed through there.
I'm not experienced enough to save that but after watching some of the video's on this thread, a more experienced hand may have saved her.
Darrick
11-04-2012, 03:26 PM
#139
Race Director
Darrin thanks for posting the video. Lots for everyone to learn or be reminded of. Peter really lays it out for you in great detail.
In my usual simplistic way is say that you just need to throttle through Bishops to keep the rear end planted. Just clip the inside rumble strip and don't track out past the black tar line and make Bishops one big smooth arc... Throttle thru Bishops to keep rear planted
In my usual simplistic way is say that you just need to throttle through Bishops to keep the rear end planted. Just clip the inside rumble strip and don't track out past the black tar line and make Bishops one big smooth arc... Throttle thru Bishops to keep rear planted
11-04-2012, 03:56 PM
#140
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Mike's advice is short and sweet.
11-04-2012, 07:35 PM
#141
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Bishop is off camber beyond that clearly visible black line, dont let your outside tires touch beyond that middle black line.
Coasting through bishop is not good, use the old but safe and fast approach: slow-in-fast-out. Enter at a slower speed and gain speed through Bishop, as Mike and Peter say, keep the rear loaded. My 0 downforce Cayman goes by Bishop with 0 drama, just keep the rear loaded under throttle and drive the on-camber section.
It's good that the only damage was tires, you could have collected a car in front of you.
Release steering wheel once impact is imminent, as a car sliding is still under control if you play with the slide.
Autocrosses at fort myers help develop on the limit car control, with barely any risk. Drifting schools also help develop these at the limit skills, and so does scca rallycross.
Talk to Izzone and Erik, they are Bishop kings in the DE Cup.
Cheers!!
Coasting through bishop is not good, use the old but safe and fast approach: slow-in-fast-out. Enter at a slower speed and gain speed through Bishop, as Mike and Peter say, keep the rear loaded. My 0 downforce Cayman goes by Bishop with 0 drama, just keep the rear loaded under throttle and drive the on-camber section.
It's good that the only damage was tires, you could have collected a car in front of you.
Release steering wheel once impact is imminent, as a car sliding is still under control if you play with the slide.
Autocrosses at fort myers help develop on the limit car control, with barely any risk. Drifting schools also help develop these at the limit skills, and so does scca rallycross.
Talk to Izzone and Erik, they are Bishop kings in the DE Cup.
Cheers!!
11-04-2012, 08:46 PM
#142
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I'm not part of the DE Cup but I can go off with the best of them. Still trying to figure out why my rear started to come out there....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOvu4...e_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOvu4...e_gdata_player
I thought you had it back under control at first but then she just sailed away!
thx for sharing!
11-05-2012, 08:48 AM
#144
Very enjoyable Sunday. Great seeing some of the guys and acquiring "new" pads from the crew!
11-05-2012, 09:27 AM
#145
Burning Brakes
That's because he has 7.2 RS w/PDK. If he drove my car, it'd have PDK too,... Eddie = PDK. 
Video is awesome, but sitting in the passenger seat is jaw-dropping.
Wow,... Fantastic weekend! So much to recap. I graduated into Chin Intermediate and ran a 2:29.0 for my personal best (3.5 sec improvement from June).
DE Cup is a riot. I am still amazed at the talent here and the commorodarie is what makes this sport so great. Thank you Erik and Eddie for helping me swap wheels, and of course to Peter for being my turnkey arrive and drive solution(!!!). Thanks Randy for the very helpful instruction and coaching too.
I always learn so much from everyone around me: be it driving lines, car dynamics, technical items, etc. Makes for a most rewarding experience! Another successful Florida delivery. Thanks again to the Famous Trakcar - a true class act.
The countdown to Winterfest begins!
Video is awesome, but sitting in the passenger seat is jaw-dropping.
Wow,... Fantastic weekend! So much to recap. I graduated into Chin Intermediate and ran a 2:29.0 for my personal best (3.5 sec improvement from June).
DE Cup is a riot. I am still amazed at the talent here and the commorodarie is what makes this sport so great. Thank you Erik and Eddie for helping me swap wheels, and of course to Peter for being my turnkey arrive and drive solution(!!!). Thanks Randy for the very helpful instruction and coaching too.
I always learn so much from everyone around me: be it driving lines, car dynamics, technical items, etc. Makes for a most rewarding experience! Another successful Florida delivery. Thanks again to the Famous Trakcar - a true class act.
The countdown to Winterfest begins!
11-05-2012, 10:47 AM
#147
11-05-2012, 10:52 AM
#148
Rennlist Member
I have video doing almost exactly the same thing through BB last year.
Made me take a long hard look at what I was doing. I also stepped out ever so wide there on the second apex, I mean just a bit, and lost it. Full spin off the track, through the dirt, back on the pavement, eventually parked sideways in the tire wall. Good times
I'm much more agressive going after those inside curbs now and letting the car track to the right naturally for the upcoming right hander instead of forcing it it to middle or left. Whereever it ends up it ends up.
Like Pro Coach suggested, my hands stayed on the wheel and the brake pedal was practically through the floor fred flintstone style. But for that my incident would have been 10x worse. Flat spotted the tires straight into the cords but slowed the car to less than 3mph when contact was eventually made.
Made me take a long hard look at what I was doing. I also stepped out ever so wide there on the second apex, I mean just a bit, and lost it. Full spin off the track, through the dirt, back on the pavement, eventually parked sideways in the tire wall. Good times
I'm much more agressive going after those inside curbs now and letting the car track to the right naturally for the upcoming right hander instead of forcing it it to middle or left. Whereever it ends up it ends up.
Like Pro Coach suggested, my hands stayed on the wheel and the brake pedal was practically through the floor fred flintstone style. But for that my incident would have been 10x worse. Flat spotted the tires straight into the cords but slowed the car to less than 3mph when contact was eventually made.
11-05-2012, 11:00 AM
#150
Randy and Peters Pro's (Nigel) line was way wide on BB so he could stay to the left for turn 15. I'll post some video later. Might be faster for a pro but seemed pretty dicey for us humans. I prefer getting left side tires on second rumble strips and ending up mid track for 15.