Movit Brakes on GT3 Update. Monumentally Capable and Bulletproof. Pictures/Details
#31
Rennlist Member
Considered in a vacuum of other factors, it would certainly shock. For me the thought process went like this (let's say 30 track days as one of the variables):
Spec new car with steel brakes instead of PCCB- save $8200 (but still have weight benefits).
5:1 pad life - save $4500 parts + $2000 labor.
Mid-life pad flips - labor/hassle factor $1500.
PCCB rotors (worn out)- $18,000 or ? how much in steel rotors (personally don't know how long they last)?
Confidence/stopping power - $? (priceless?)
------------------------------------
$34,200 "savings" which is more than the cost of this system. The more track days you do, the more the math works out. Also consider residual value if resold and/or value of rotors going to your next car and so on. There are a number of ways to consider the value proposition. I realize I was having my cake and eating it to in the math above by including steel and expensing PCCB
That is way cheaper than in the US and if you work the maths, a bargain.
Spec new car with steel brakes instead of PCCB- save $8200 (but still have weight benefits).
5:1 pad life - save $4500 parts + $2000 labor.
Mid-life pad flips - labor/hassle factor $1500.
PCCB rotors (worn out)- $18,000 or ? how much in steel rotors (personally don't know how long they last)?
Confidence/stopping power - $? (priceless?)
------------------------------------
$34,200 "savings" which is more than the cost of this system. The more track days you do, the more the math works out. Also consider residual value if resold and/or value of rotors going to your next car and so on. There are a number of ways to consider the value proposition. I realize I was having my cake and eating it to in the math above by including steel and expensing PCCB
That is way cheaper than in the US and if you work the maths, a bargain.
Will definitely look at Movit next time round.
Out of interest, what tires were you using for the track days with the brakes. I have found that the simple change to R comps can remove any wiggle even with standard brake systems but that the R's can push the brakes a lot harder over a few more laps.
#32
Drifting
Thread Starter
#33
Considered in a vacuum of other factors, it would certainly shock. For me the thought process went like this (let's say 30 track days as one of the variables):
Spec new car with steel brakes instead of PCCB- save $8200 (but still have weight benefits).
5:1 pad life - save $4500 parts + $2000 labor.
Mid-life pad flips - labor/hassle factor $1500.
PCCB rotors (worn out)- $18,000 or ? how much in steel rotors (personally don't know how long they last)?
Confidence/stopping power - $? (priceless?)
------------------------------------
$34,200 "savings" which is more than the cost of this system. The more track days you do, the more the math works out. Also consider residual value if resold and/or value of rotors going to your next car and so on. There are a number of ways to consider the value proposition. I realize I was having my cake and eating it to in the math above by including steel and expensing PCCB
That is way cheaper than in the US and if you work the maths, a bargain.
Spec new car with steel brakes instead of PCCB- save $8200 (but still have weight benefits).
5:1 pad life - save $4500 parts + $2000 labor.
Mid-life pad flips - labor/hassle factor $1500.
PCCB rotors (worn out)- $18,000 or ? how much in steel rotors (personally don't know how long they last)?
Confidence/stopping power - $? (priceless?)
------------------------------------
$34,200 "savings" which is more than the cost of this system. The more track days you do, the more the math works out. Also consider residual value if resold and/or value of rotors going to your next car and so on. There are a number of ways to consider the value proposition. I realize I was having my cake and eating it to in the math above by including steel and expensing PCCB
That is way cheaper than in the US and if you work the maths, a bargain.
#34
And how much certainty does one have that these rotors will fit the next car and the one after that?
#36
Nordschleife Master
#37
At minimum the rotors can always be made to fit a new application. It would require new hats to be made for the new application. The rotors are 85% of the cost of the kits.
#38
Race Car
I thought the ceramic rotors were more brittle than cast iron ones. What happens if one gets dropped? Or hit with your 6-foot long torque wrench when changing center lock wheels? Or are these warrantied for life?
#39
Nordschleife Master
you know what, i just realized he may have been quoting me in $US, not Singapore dollars... in which case, its over $US 30k for the system.
i guess too rich for my blood, considering i don't track anywhere close to as frequently or as hard as you do!
keep the updates coming however, love what you've done to your car!
i guess too rich for my blood, considering i don't track anywhere close to as frequently or as hard as you do!
keep the updates coming however, love what you've done to your car!
#40
Drifting
Thread Starter
Having a hard time understanding why a rotor manufacturer would warranty a rotor against abuse? If someone damages an item due to negligence then that would be their responsibility to accept.
#41
Drifting
Thread Starter
As Tom mentioned, a new hat could be made or one could sell the rotor in centerlock fitment to another Porsche owner. The point being that the rotor now carries residual value (a durable asset) and is no longer a consumable.
#42
Burning Brakes
You think that the feel of the PCCB sucks? You've prolly never driven a car from another manufacturer with ceramics..
Especially their mid 2000 editions..
We can accuse Porsche for a lot of things, PCCB price and longevity included but feel? Nope.
Pete glad for you buddy that these exceeded your expectations!
I know from first hand that it was a long quest and a ballsy move. All pioneers have those issues..
Especially their mid 2000 editions..
We can accuse Porsche for a lot of things, PCCB price and longevity included but feel? Nope.
Pete glad for you buddy that these exceeded your expectations!
I know from first hand that it was a long quest and a ballsy move. All pioneers have those issues..
#43
To paraphrase Newt Gingrich; if you can convince my wife that 30,000 dollar brakes are a bargain you've got my vote.
#44
Rennlist Member
Great review Savy....I do agree they are not for everyone.. but some here do not want the hassel of changing pads frequently every other DE ...etc...IMO this is a nitche product, the people that want it are not going to stumble over the 30k hill....
I know I have asked before about wheel size no 18 of course, but can you elaborate on the benefit of oversized rotors
I know I have asked before about wheel size no 18 of course, but can you elaborate on the benefit of oversized rotors
#45
Drifting
Thread Starter
Great review Savy....I do agree they are not for everyone.. but some here do not want the hassel of changing pads frequently every other DE ...etc...IMO this is a nitche product, the people that want it are not going to stumble over the 30k hill....
I know I have asked before about wheel size no 18 of course, but can you elaborate on the benefit of oversized rotors
I know I have asked before about wheel size no 18 of course, but can you elaborate on the benefit of oversized rotors
Rotors:
- Greater swept area = more friction surface and more heat mass available for heat sink
- Monolithic vs core w/layered on suface on OE. Much stronger/more durable
- Thicker = more mass available for heat sink
- Carbon/Silicon/Carbide is exceptionally durable. Under normal use (NOT abuse - pad into rivets/backing plate) they simply do not wear. At all.
- Allows for use of physically bigger pad = more frction surface, more heat dissipation, wear over larger area.
- Greater surface area allows for more precise brake force modulation for example when trailbraking (all else being equal)
Here is the official spiel:
"Explanation of MOV´IT-CER ceramic rotor:
Polyacronitrile fiber sheets are needled together to create a PANOX preform. The
future rotors are cut out of this preform. These "raw" discs are carbonized at >1500°C
to convert the Polyacronitrile fibers to carbon fibers. These carbonized rotors are then
densified during a 14 day chemical vapor infiltration process. The rotors are then
carbon-carbon. The rotors are then machined to the final geometry. Some faces are
machined over thickness to allow for future machining. Now high rate silicon
infiltration coverts the carbon-carbon rotors to a carbon silicon carbide rotor within
approx. 16 hours.
finally, all faces are machined to the given tolerances and dimensions using
polycrystalline diamond machine tooling which is required due to the hardness of the
material. Finally, a strict x-ray scan and porosity check to ensure the same density
throughout the entire rotor.
Advantages of the MOV´IT-CER rotor ceramic rotor over a cast iron rotor:
- Weight
- Lifetime
- Cost
The first improvement of a MOV´IT-CER rotor over the cast iron rotors is the reduced
weight. The weight is reduced by approx. 50% over a same size cast iron rotor (more
is not realistic although others claim). So this means a saving of between 4 and 8 kgs.
(!) on each corner of the car. As a result, the car feels as if it is "lighter", responds
better to the throttle and handles amazingly better. to give an example: driving over a
bump on a highway at 70 mph, this bump can be heard AND felt in your feet and in
the seat. If you take off 6 kg from each wheel, you will still "hear" the bump, but you
hardly feel it anymore since the wheel is so much lighter and follows to the road much
quicker. The next important advantage is the much quicker steering response. The car
seems to "eat" the corners, turning right or left is much "lighter" and the car turns in
the desired direction much quicker and more accurately.
The second important advantage is the lifetime.
A MOV´IT-CER rotor is extremely strong. Only polycrystalline diamond machine
tooling is able to machine the surface of this rotor. The wear of this rotor is much less
than the wear of a cast iron rotor. While replacing several cast iron rotors, the
MOV´IT-CER rotor can be left on the car and just the pads will ever need to be
replaced.
One big advantage of the MOV´IT-CER rotor compared to other ceramic rotors is the
many times higher lifetime of the MOV´IT-CER rotor.
The MOV´IT-CER rotor is made in a completely different way than all other ceramic
rotors. a MOV´IT-CER rotor starts his life as Polyacronitrile laminar fiber sheets,
which are needled together in way that the fibers are oriented only in two directions (0
& 90°). This long fiber structure is kept for the entire production process until the rotor
is finished.
As a result, the thermal conductivity and the thermal capacity of the MOV´IT-CER
rotor are much higher compared to ceramic rotors that are used on some production
cars these days. Those rotors are made out of a chopped fiber compound, so the fibers
are much shorter which results in a bad thermal conductivity and poor thermal
capacity. Of course the strength of those rotors is also reduced due to the lower
material integrity. Since the structure of the MOV´IT-CER rotor is the same
throughout the entire rotor, the lifetime is several times higher than the lifetime of the
chopped fiber version. The MOV´IT-CER rotor can be used all the way down until the
fading resistance and / or pedal travel is no longer satisfying. This will take years of
hard use and thousands of miles. So talking serious, as long as you want to have the
MOV´IT-CER rotor on whatever car, you only buy it once and take it from one car
into the next. Just change the hats and caliper supports. In our opinion, this is one big
advantage of the MOV´IT-CER rotor over the chopped fiber production rotors found
on some production cars produced these days since those have to be replaced once the
0.5 mm thick friction layer is worn.
Another important advantage of the MOV´IT-CER rotor is the much faster cooling
compared to other ceramic rotors. The long fiber structure transfers the heat
throughout the entire rotor quicker and thus dissipates the heat much quicker than a
rotor with short chopped fibers that cannot transfer the heat.
As a result of this highly sophisticated and intelligent design of the MOV´IT-CER
rotor, the cost of the complete brake at the end of the day is much lower than the cost
for normal, cast iron rotors. The lifetime is many times higher, so one invests money
only once to enjoy many years along with the benefits of reduced weight, improved
stopping AND handling of your car."