Trofeo R Report
10-18-2012, 06:52 PM
#106
Race Director
csmarx, R888 has a stiff sidewall and great turn in feel and requires less camber than the Trofeo. I've used both 19" and 18" R888 and depending on the track and driving style I've found -1.5 to -2.5 front works and -1.5 to -2 camber works. I'm at -2.5 front and -2 rear and getting pretty good wear. My street tires are wearing ok at this alignment spec too.
With your GT3 height adjustable suspension you can use R888 255/35/18 and 315/30/18 and lower-corner balance the car and align the car to those and your street tires will be fine. I run these sizes on OZ Challenge 9x18 and 12x18 wheels I got from Damon at Tire Rack. 305 or 315 fit fine on 12". Porsche GT3 rear is 305 and the wheel is 12" so don't worry about those specs you see on Tire Rack.
If you stay with 19" wheels and have the money to spend then the Trofeo seems like the ticket but you need a lot more camber.....is street or track more important....something will be a compromise.
With your GT3 height adjustable suspension you can use R888 255/35/18 and 315/30/18 and lower-corner balance the car and align the car to those and your street tires will be fine. I run these sizes on OZ Challenge 9x18 and 12x18 wheels I got from Damon at Tire Rack. 305 or 315 fit fine on 12". Porsche GT3 rear is 305 and the wheel is 12" so don't worry about those specs you see on Tire Rack.
If you stay with 19" wheels and have the money to spend then the Trofeo seems like the ticket but you need a lot more camber.....is street or track more important....something will be a compromise.
10-18-2012, 07:36 PM
#107
Instructor
savyboy,
You seem to be the only person here running these Trofeo R's at relatively low camber -2f / -1.8r which happens to be my current setting as well. What are you thinking wear wise so far? I don't run THAT hard at the track, so if this could work maybe the Trofeo's R's could work after all. (See, I'm back on topic.)
mdrums,
Your thoughts on lower camber is what draws me to try the R888 - not o mention the price. I'm not sure I want to go quite as wide as you though. Of you see my detailed analysis, I would also worry about diameters....
So much to think about.
-Christian
You seem to be the only person here running these Trofeo R's at relatively low camber -2f / -1.8r which happens to be my current setting as well. What are you thinking wear wise so far? I don't run THAT hard at the track, so if this could work maybe the Trofeo's R's could work after all. (See, I'm back on topic.)
mdrums,
Your thoughts on lower camber is what draws me to try the R888 - not o mention the price. I'm not sure I want to go quite as wide as you though. Of you see my detailed analysis, I would also worry about diameters....
So much to think about.
-Christian
10-18-2012, 08:41 PM
#108
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I ran (3) 30 minutes sessions on Trofeo this past weekend with my Fiat, and one more session back in May. Front ones are Trofeo R 245/35R19 and rear ones are Trofeo (non-R) 325/30R19.
I went out at 22 psi shooting for 28 psi hot, when the session was over the tires were at 34 psi, it is not a predictable tire, it is an on/off grip tire when going beyond ideal pressures. On the second session, I dropped 6 psi from their current pressures, and when the session was over they were at 31 psi, on the 3rd session I dropped 3 more psi and they came back at 28 psi which is where I wanted them. However, I cannot put them on track at 13 psi cold as they could be damaged, so the first session is going to be a waste as they would exceed their ideal pressures.
The tire has nowhere near the grip of the Hoosier R6, not remotely close, at least not in my Fiat. On the very few smooth sections at Sebring, this tire gave better grip than the MPSC race-spec I have been running recently (265/345), and better grip than my RE11 street tires.
I have the Fiat set to -3.5 camber all around, and the tires wore nicely despite of the Sebring abrasive surface. -3.5 camber works great on them, which is good news, as my slicks and Hoosier like -3.5 camber as well, so I don't have to change setup for tires.
Unfortunately, on my specific application, the Trofeo doesn't work. My car has 6 times higher spring rates in the front axle and 3 times higher in the rear axle compared to an Aero Beetle. The Trofeo has a very stiff sidewall and that made the tire undriveable in my Fiat, the tires were bouncing everywhere, and a tire has no grip in the air. At Daytona and Homeastead, and any other smooth track, they must be nice, but not at Sebring with my stiff springs.
However, for the Aero Beetles, the Trofeo is a nice choice, as it provides stiff sidewall to a car with soft springs.
Overall, I like them, but not for Sebring.
My fastest lap this weekend on Trofeos was a 2:25. My fastest lap in May with hot and humid conditions on Pirelli DH slicks is a 2:16. My fastest lap this year on Hoosier A6 is a 2:17.5. There is no way the Trofeo is 9 seconds slower than a hard slick, or 7.5 secs slower than a A6. It is just the tire not working with my stiff suspension at this specific racetrack.
Much cheaper than the race-spec 265/345 MPSC, better than the R888/NT01, as fast as the vintage shaved RA1. The tires didn't fade with use, very consistent.
Street capable track tire, Trofeo is my new favorite, but I don't need to drive on them to the events, so Hoosier R6 are a better deal (similar longevity, cheaper, more grip, more predictable).
I went out at 22 psi shooting for 28 psi hot, when the session was over the tires were at 34 psi, it is not a predictable tire, it is an on/off grip tire when going beyond ideal pressures. On the second session, I dropped 6 psi from their current pressures, and when the session was over they were at 31 psi, on the 3rd session I dropped 3 more psi and they came back at 28 psi which is where I wanted them. However, I cannot put them on track at 13 psi cold as they could be damaged, so the first session is going to be a waste as they would exceed their ideal pressures.
The tire has nowhere near the grip of the Hoosier R6, not remotely close, at least not in my Fiat. On the very few smooth sections at Sebring, this tire gave better grip than the MPSC race-spec I have been running recently (265/345), and better grip than my RE11 street tires.
I have the Fiat set to -3.5 camber all around, and the tires wore nicely despite of the Sebring abrasive surface. -3.5 camber works great on them, which is good news, as my slicks and Hoosier like -3.5 camber as well, so I don't have to change setup for tires.
Unfortunately, on my specific application, the Trofeo doesn't work. My car has 6 times higher spring rates in the front axle and 3 times higher in the rear axle compared to an Aero Beetle. The Trofeo has a very stiff sidewall and that made the tire undriveable in my Fiat, the tires were bouncing everywhere, and a tire has no grip in the air. At Daytona and Homeastead, and any other smooth track, they must be nice, but not at Sebring with my stiff springs.
However, for the Aero Beetles, the Trofeo is a nice choice, as it provides stiff sidewall to a car with soft springs.
Overall, I like them, but not for Sebring.
My fastest lap this weekend on Trofeos was a 2:25. My fastest lap in May with hot and humid conditions on Pirelli DH slicks is a 2:16. My fastest lap this year on Hoosier A6 is a 2:17.5. There is no way the Trofeo is 9 seconds slower than a hard slick, or 7.5 secs slower than a A6. It is just the tire not working with my stiff suspension at this specific racetrack.
Much cheaper than the race-spec 265/345 MPSC, better than the R888/NT01, as fast as the vintage shaved RA1. The tires didn't fade with use, very consistent.
Street capable track tire, Trofeo is my new favorite, but I don't need to drive on them to the events, so Hoosier R6 are a better deal (similar longevity, cheaper, more grip, more predictable).
10-18-2012, 08:51 PM
#109
Race Director
Rad, if Trofeo has such a stiff side wall why do you think it requires so much negative camber? R888 has stiff sidewall and does not require too much negative camber.
10-18-2012, 09:35 PM
#110
Rennlist Member
I have a fresh set getting mounted for the Trackrat Invitational. Going to try both them and my RS3's and see how the lap times compare. Will report back on performance and wear.
10-21-2012, 09:07 AM
#111
Don't worry about it. I drive with 3 degrees in front and 2.5 in the rear and I have no problems at all on the road.
10-22-2012, 12:41 AM
#112
Trofeo R at Laguna Today
Hello All,
Today was my second track day with the Trofeo Rs.
The first day, at Sears Pt., I ran a conservative camber setting which resulted in the outer edges getting chewed up, and some feeling of understeer or plow over hill and dale....as Sears is. Traction and linearity of response was good.
Today, at Laguna, I logged about 2hrs total track time, about 100 miles, total. Temperature was mid to high 60s.
My latest alignment is -2.5 front and rear with a knats *** of toe in F&R.
The tires with this alignment were sublime.
The car turned in a responsive but solid manner, not jittery. It was quite stable under braking, and felt very planted over the turn 1 blind hill down to turn 2, for ex. The car would step out in a very controllable manner off throttle or with release, or with a tap of the brake - traction and slip could be manipulated with the throttle fairly "easily" for a novice like myself.
Re pressure: I started at 22-23 psi and after a couple of easy laps, I could feel the traction grow in at about 25 psi indicated, which is 1 lb low compared to my calibrated gauge, so its actually 26 psi. The tires seemed to consistently "prefer" the 26 - 30 psi range. At 31 or 32 psi I felt them really start to lose grip, which was consistent with my previous outing.
The wear was much much better with the -2.5 camber setting, much more even.
Lookin forward the the next track day with this set-up, no doubt.
This alignment works well on the street as well- have logged about 500 street miles thus far...
Regards,
UJ
Today was my second track day with the Trofeo Rs.
The first day, at Sears Pt., I ran a conservative camber setting which resulted in the outer edges getting chewed up, and some feeling of understeer or plow over hill and dale....as Sears is. Traction and linearity of response was good.
Today, at Laguna, I logged about 2hrs total track time, about 100 miles, total. Temperature was mid to high 60s.
My latest alignment is -2.5 front and rear with a knats *** of toe in F&R.
The tires with this alignment were sublime.
The car turned in a responsive but solid manner, not jittery. It was quite stable under braking, and felt very planted over the turn 1 blind hill down to turn 2, for ex. The car would step out in a very controllable manner off throttle or with release, or with a tap of the brake - traction and slip could be manipulated with the throttle fairly "easily" for a novice like myself.
Re pressure: I started at 22-23 psi and after a couple of easy laps, I could feel the traction grow in at about 25 psi indicated, which is 1 lb low compared to my calibrated gauge, so its actually 26 psi. The tires seemed to consistently "prefer" the 26 - 30 psi range. At 31 or 32 psi I felt them really start to lose grip, which was consistent with my previous outing.
The wear was much much better with the -2.5 camber setting, much more even.
Lookin forward the the next track day with this set-up, no doubt.
This alignment works well on the street as well- have logged about 500 street miles thus far...
Regards,
UJ
10-22-2012, 09:39 AM
#113
Anyone know where these unobtanium Trofeo R's can actually be bought? Been calling around but zip on availability. Appreciate any lead as have last series of track days coming up for 2012.
10-22-2012, 11:40 AM
#114
Drifting
Thread Starter
Remaining: 1 set 50% (scrubs) Trofeo R $900 shipped
2 rear tires non-R, new, $1000 shipped
Both RS sizing 245/325-19"
Email me: Pete@Trackrat.com, please don't reply to this thread.
10-22-2012, 12:25 PM
#115
Rennlist Member
Got my set at Frisby Race Tire. They were at my door in 4 days with regular shipping.
10-27-2012, 10:48 PM
#116
Have a set on the way (thanks of the vendor suggestions). What do you all run these tires at on the street if your driving to and from the track as I will be? Still look for 30psi street?
10-27-2012, 11:12 PM
#117
Rennlist Member
I ran mine the last session of the day today at the Trackrat Event. Went out at 22 psi all around and since they were new, took it easy on them for the first few laps. I gradually added speed and by the end of the session, I was up 3 seconds over my RS3's with lots more grip to explore. They came off at 28f and 30r and I could feel the rear grip slightly reduced. I bled the rears and will start cold at 23f and 21r next time.
I like these tires. I have run MPSC's mainly and the RS3's for the first time today. Definitely more grip than the n specs and really nice predictable breakaway. The surprise of the day though was the Hankook RS3. Wow what a tire. Great grip and minimal wear even on an abrasive track. Street tires are slowly closing the gap between R comps.
I like these tires. I have run MPSC's mainly and the RS3's for the first time today. Definitely more grip than the n specs and really nice predictable breakaway. The surprise of the day though was the Hankook RS3. Wow what a tire. Great grip and minimal wear even on an abrasive track. Street tires are slowly closing the gap between R comps.
10-30-2012, 12:54 PM
#118
Instructor
How about on a 2 minute lap?
- this is my guess based on decent but not complete knowledge
- there are also issues such as track temperature which can have a big effect of certain tires at certain temps
- for example in cooler climates, MPSC race spec suck huge
- so lets assume on a 80f degree day (not 110f or 50f)
- lets also assume we are talking about each tire's average 'best' lap
1) - Hoosier A6 - Fastest
2) - Hoosier R6 +1 seconds
3) - Trofeo +2 seconds
4) - MPSC race spec +2.5 seconds
5) - Shaved RA-1s +2.5 seconds
6) - R888 +3
7) - MPSC N spec +4 seconds
8) - MPSS + 4.5 seconds
8) - MPS2 + 5 seconds
I'm sure Rad has much better guesses
- this is my guess based on decent but not complete knowledge
- there are also issues such as track temperature which can have a big effect of certain tires at certain temps
- for example in cooler climates, MPSC race spec suck huge
- so lets assume on a 80f degree day (not 110f or 50f)
- lets also assume we are talking about each tire's average 'best' lap
1) - Hoosier A6 - Fastest
2) - Hoosier R6 +1 seconds
3) - Trofeo +2 seconds
4) - MPSC race spec +2.5 seconds
5) - Shaved RA-1s +2.5 seconds
6) - R888 +3
7) - MPSC N spec +4 seconds
8) - MPSS + 4.5 seconds
8) - MPS2 + 5 seconds
I'm sure Rad has much better guesses
Originally Posted by ChrisF
The surprise of the day though was the Hankook RS3. Wow what a tire. Great grip and minimal wear even on an abrasive track.
-Christian
10-30-2012, 01:50 PM
#119
Rennlist Member
For me it was about 4-5 seconds on a 2:43 lap - completely unscientific. Towards the end of day 1 at the Trackrat event, my laptimes started to stall around 2:48. I swapped the Trofeo R's on and immediately Ran a 2:45 and the next day found another 2 seconds. I would say 1 second was due to different/better lines and finding better ways to exploit the grip. Wear at the end of the two days was interesting. Fronts wore evenly at -2.5 but not very much. Rears wore a decent amount with the bias running from outer edge to inner (less wear). Admittedly, I was drifting the rear a bit on throttle towards the end of the day and the track was as abrasive as hell. I believe my quick check at the end of day had the rears wearing down to 4/32nd's outer and 5/32nd's inner.
My best description of these tires, at least on the Reno Fernley track, was that trying to break grip felt like trying to separate velcro strips.
My best description of these tires, at least on the Reno Fernley track, was that trying to break grip felt like trying to separate velcro strips.
