seriously: 2009 Scuderia vs. 4.0
02-20-2012, 04:46 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
02-20-2012, 05:05 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
02-20-2012, 05:28 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
The Scuderia was overpriced when it was released, a 2008 F430 was $175k on the sticker, while the 2008 Scuderia sticker was $100k higher. With the 360 Modena and the Challenge Stradale, the deal was different, Stradale was 20% more expensive. The Scuderia, 599 GTO and 16M have been overpriced compared to the standard versions of these cars (F430, 599GTB, F430 Spider).
However, today the market has adjusted. Scuderia are in the $160k-$210k depending on mileage, color, options, year.
For track use, I would choose the 4.0RS. The car has plenty of aftermarket support for track consumables, you can run 18" or 19" wheels, with a vast selection of tires. Brake cooling is among the best available on a street car. Brake rotors and brake pad choices are significant. The weak limited slip differential is cheap to replace with a quality unit.
For street use, manual transmission cars are more fun, but all the GT3 have some isolation that is easy to described when driven back-to-back with the Scuderia, although the GT3 are far from isolated, the Scuderia provides much more feedback to your senses. For street use, I enjoy the Scuderia a lot more. Let's be clear, that the standard F430 and the 458 Italia are really soft and isolated, when compared to a GT3 of any type, but that is their intended purpose.
I have not driven the 4.0RS yet, but have driven every GT3 since 2004. The 4.0RS is essentially a 3.8RS with the wonderful RSR crankshaft and the 50Hp increase, 3.8RS and 4.0RS are only 22 lbs apart.
The RS long and low nose makes street driving a little challenging, the Scuderia is not a problem in this area.
The Scuderia air intakes sit high and next to your ears, the engine is right behind the driver (low isolation), contrary to the 4.0RS engine being as far away from the driver as possible. The Scuderia exhaust outlets sit high, producing a sound easier to be reached by the driver. It is the combination of the flat crank V8, 8500rpm redline, intake, engine and exhaust sound that makes the experience unique.
There are 3 settings for the suspension, with the softest mode being very comfortable, and the hard mode not being that hard. I run Sebring with stiffer springs compared to stock, and hard suspension setting on my re-valved Sachs.
Weak points on the Scuderia: brake cooling, expensive brake pads, vastly expensive brake rotors, the stock headers. I'm still working on a solution for the brakes with some help from Performance Friction and the folks at BimmerWorld (James and Seth). It requires time, but eventually a new set of calipers, rotors, and affordable brake pads will resolve the weakness. There are other brake kits available from Brembo and StopTech, with minor work involved on their installation, still not what I consider a top of the line system (which the 4.0RS doesn't have anyway). Brake cooling is achieved by using either 599GTO cooling ducts, or F430 Challenge cooling ducts, bolt-on pieces. Headers are made by FabSpeed or Capristo, I run Capristo.
The Scuderia is 108 lbs lighter than the 4.0 RS, and 130 lbs lighter than the 3.8RS. The 4.0RS can be made lighter with some options, and the same applies to the Scuderia.
Lap Times around the Nurburgring tell something, 4.0RS 7:27 vs. Scuderia 7:39, throw in the GTR,ZR1,Z06, times and the Scuderia should be the slowest car on track. But, I have yet to see my Scuderia losing 4 secs to a 4.0RS or 2 secs to a 3.8RS at Sebring, so no idea how Fiat setups a car for the Nurburgring, but they must be doing something wrong.
Scuderia used prices have stayed flat for 18 months. The only ones getting cheaper are the ones getting more miles. Depreciation will be dictated by miles. Recently, the market has being getting hot on the Scuderia, people switching from 458 Italia, F430, Stradale to Scuderia. There is a nice Scuderia community.
So far, with all my hard driving, drag races, autocrosses, track days, canyon driving around Los Angeles Crest HWY, it is been the most affordable car I have owned. After 3 years, I'm still on my original brake rotors, clutch, everything except tires and brake pads.
For dedicated track use, 4.0RS is a better car (more affordable), but an older GT3 Cup could be an even better option.
For street car, I prefer the Scuderia, but you can't go wrong with the 4.0RS. You already have a 3.8RS, so the 4.0RS will feel like a 3.8RS with more power, and it you want more power on a car under $200k, there are other choices, like the ZR1, Viper ACR, SLS, even a Camaro or a Mustang.
If you can keep the 3.8RS (best Porsche bargain) and get a Scuderia, that would bring you so much more fun than a 4.0RS alone.
However, today the market has adjusted. Scuderia are in the $160k-$210k depending on mileage, color, options, year.
For track use, I would choose the 4.0RS. The car has plenty of aftermarket support for track consumables, you can run 18" or 19" wheels, with a vast selection of tires. Brake cooling is among the best available on a street car. Brake rotors and brake pad choices are significant. The weak limited slip differential is cheap to replace with a quality unit.
For street use, manual transmission cars are more fun, but all the GT3 have some isolation that is easy to described when driven back-to-back with the Scuderia, although the GT3 are far from isolated, the Scuderia provides much more feedback to your senses. For street use, I enjoy the Scuderia a lot more. Let's be clear, that the standard F430 and the 458 Italia are really soft and isolated, when compared to a GT3 of any type, but that is their intended purpose.
I have not driven the 4.0RS yet, but have driven every GT3 since 2004. The 4.0RS is essentially a 3.8RS with the wonderful RSR crankshaft and the 50Hp increase, 3.8RS and 4.0RS are only 22 lbs apart.
The RS long and low nose makes street driving a little challenging, the Scuderia is not a problem in this area.
The Scuderia air intakes sit high and next to your ears, the engine is right behind the driver (low isolation), contrary to the 4.0RS engine being as far away from the driver as possible. The Scuderia exhaust outlets sit high, producing a sound easier to be reached by the driver. It is the combination of the flat crank V8, 8500rpm redline, intake, engine and exhaust sound that makes the experience unique.
There are 3 settings for the suspension, with the softest mode being very comfortable, and the hard mode not being that hard. I run Sebring with stiffer springs compared to stock, and hard suspension setting on my re-valved Sachs.
Weak points on the Scuderia: brake cooling, expensive brake pads, vastly expensive brake rotors, the stock headers. I'm still working on a solution for the brakes with some help from Performance Friction and the folks at BimmerWorld (James and Seth). It requires time, but eventually a new set of calipers, rotors, and affordable brake pads will resolve the weakness. There are other brake kits available from Brembo and StopTech, with minor work involved on their installation, still not what I consider a top of the line system (which the 4.0RS doesn't have anyway). Brake cooling is achieved by using either 599GTO cooling ducts, or F430 Challenge cooling ducts, bolt-on pieces. Headers are made by FabSpeed or Capristo, I run Capristo.
The Scuderia is 108 lbs lighter than the 4.0 RS, and 130 lbs lighter than the 3.8RS. The 4.0RS can be made lighter with some options, and the same applies to the Scuderia.
Lap Times around the Nurburgring tell something, 4.0RS 7:27 vs. Scuderia 7:39, throw in the GTR,ZR1,Z06, times and the Scuderia should be the slowest car on track. But, I have yet to see my Scuderia losing 4 secs to a 4.0RS or 2 secs to a 3.8RS at Sebring, so no idea how Fiat setups a car for the Nurburgring, but they must be doing something wrong.
Scuderia used prices have stayed flat for 18 months. The only ones getting cheaper are the ones getting more miles. Depreciation will be dictated by miles. Recently, the market has being getting hot on the Scuderia, people switching from 458 Italia, F430, Stradale to Scuderia. There is a nice Scuderia community.
So far, with all my hard driving, drag races, autocrosses, track days, canyon driving around Los Angeles Crest HWY, it is been the most affordable car I have owned. After 3 years, I'm still on my original brake rotors, clutch, everything except tires and brake pads.
For dedicated track use, 4.0RS is a better car (more affordable), but an older GT3 Cup could be an even better option.
For street car, I prefer the Scuderia, but you can't go wrong with the 4.0RS. You already have a 3.8RS, so the 4.0RS will feel like a 3.8RS with more power, and it you want more power on a car under $200k, there are other choices, like the ZR1, Viper ACR, SLS, even a Camaro or a Mustang.
If you can keep the 3.8RS (best Porsche bargain) and get a Scuderia, that would bring you so much more fun than a 4.0RS alone.
From a 4.0RS owners perspective I love my car. It is great on the street and we will see about the track soon. If you have a 3.8RS already and track that car then the 4.0RS will be faster and better on the track. How much better, I am not sure but I think the main point should be the differences in the cars is minor for a DE. Both a 4.0RS and a 3.8RS on the track will go faster than most people can drive, they both will give you goose bumps every time you get in them, and both cars look amazing. The 4.0 is the perfect 997 chassis in my mind. It has the extra power and cool features the 3.8RS wants. It is basically a car you buy and have to do very little to it and you never grow tired of it. The 3.8RS is almost that same car.
So in making the decision on a Scuderia vs the 4.0RS I think the best way to decide is what you want. Do you want the ultimate 997 Porsche made for the street or do you want an Italian beauty that everybody drools over and you enjoy driving while your 3.8RS looks on in jealousy?
02-20-2012, 07:22 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
02-20-2012, 07:36 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
Great comments by Rad. Even though the running costs seem to be very reasonable for the Scud, do you guys feel that it is still a significantly more expensive car to own because of depreciation? It seems that modern Ferraris value starts to take a big hit around 20k miles and becomes very tough to sell once they get above 30k miles or so. This doesn't seem to happen with Porsches. Am I off base here?
02-20-2012, 07:37 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
The Scuderia was overpriced when it was released, a 2008 F430 was $175k on the sticker, while the 2008 Scuderia sticker was $100k higher. With the 360 Modena and the Challenge Stradale, the deal was different, Stradale was 20% more expensive. The Scuderia, 599 GTO and 16M have been overpriced compared to the standard versions of these cars (F430, 599GTB, F430 Spider).
However, today the market has adjusted. Scuderia are in the $160k-$210k depending on mileage, color, options, year.
For track use, I would choose the 4.0RS. The car has plenty of aftermarket support for track consumables, you can run 18" or 19" wheels, with a vast selection of tires. Brake cooling is among the best available on a street car. Brake rotors and brake pad choices are significant. The weak limited slip differential is cheap to replace with a quality unit.
For street use, manual transmission cars are more fun, but all the GT3 have some isolation that is easy to described when driven back-to-back with the Scuderia, although the GT3 are far from isolated, the Scuderia provides much more feedback to your senses. For street use, I enjoy the Scuderia a lot more. Let's be clear, that the standard F430 and the 458 Italia are really soft and isolated, when compared to a GT3 of any type, but that is their intended purpose.
I have not driven the 4.0RS yet, but have driven every GT3 since 2004. The 4.0RS is essentially a 3.8RS with the wonderful RSR crankshaft and the 50Hp increase, 3.8RS and 4.0RS are only 22 lbs apart.
The RS long and low nose makes street driving a little challenging, the Scuderia is not a problem in this area.
The Scuderia air intakes sit high and next to your ears, the engine is right behind the driver (low isolation), contrary to the 4.0RS engine being as far away from the driver as possible. The Scuderia exhaust outlets sit high, producing a sound easier to be reached by the driver. It is the combination of the flat crank V8, 8500rpm redline, intake, engine and exhaust sound that makes the experience unique.
There are 3 settings for the suspension, with the softest mode being very comfortable, and the hard mode not being that hard. I run Sebring with stiffer springs compared to stock, and hard suspension setting on my re-valved Sachs.
Weak points on the Scuderia: brake cooling, expensive brake pads, vastly expensive brake rotors, the stock headers. I'm still working on a solution for the brakes with some help from Performance Friction and the folks at BimmerWorld (James and Seth). It requires time, but eventually a new set of calipers, rotors, and affordable brake pads will resolve the weakness. There are other brake kits available from Brembo and StopTech, with minor work involved on their installation, still not what I consider a top of the line system (which the 4.0RS doesn't have anyway). Brake cooling is achieved by using either 599GTO cooling ducts, or F430 Challenge cooling ducts, bolt-on pieces. Headers are made by FabSpeed or Capristo, I run Capristo.
The Scuderia is 108 lbs lighter than the 4.0 RS, and 130 lbs lighter than the 3.8RS. The 4.0RS can be made lighter with some options, and the same applies to the Scuderia.
Lap Times around the Nurburgring tell something, 4.0RS 7:27 vs. Scuderia 7:39, throw in the GTR,ZR1,Z06, times and the Scuderia should be the slowest car on track. But, I have yet to see my Scuderia losing 4 secs to a 4.0RS or 2 secs to a 3.8RS at Sebring, so no idea how Fiat setups a car for the Nurburgring, but they must be doing something wrong.
Scuderia used prices have stayed flat for 18 months. The only ones getting cheaper are the ones getting more miles. Depreciation will be dictated by miles. Recently, the market has being getting hot on the Scuderia, people switching from 458 Italia, F430, Stradale to Scuderia. There is a nice Scuderia community.
So far, with all my hard driving, drag races, autocrosses, track days, canyon driving around Los Angeles Crest HWY, it is been the most affordable car I have owned. After 3 years, I'm still on my original brake rotors, clutch, everything except tires and brake pads.
For dedicated track use, 4.0RS is a better car (more affordable), but an older GT3 Cup could be an even better option.
For street car, I prefer the Scuderia, but you can't go wrong with the 4.0RS. You already have a 3.8RS, so the 4.0RS will feel like a 3.8RS with more power, and it you want more power on a car under $200k, there are other choices, like the ZR1, Viper ACR, SLS, even a Camaro or a Mustang.
If you can keep the 3.8RS (best Porsche bargain) and get a Scuderia, that would bring you so much more fun than a 4.0RS alone.
However, today the market has adjusted. Scuderia are in the $160k-$210k depending on mileage, color, options, year.
For track use, I would choose the 4.0RS. The car has plenty of aftermarket support for track consumables, you can run 18" or 19" wheels, with a vast selection of tires. Brake cooling is among the best available on a street car. Brake rotors and brake pad choices are significant. The weak limited slip differential is cheap to replace with a quality unit.
For street use, manual transmission cars are more fun, but all the GT3 have some isolation that is easy to described when driven back-to-back with the Scuderia, although the GT3 are far from isolated, the Scuderia provides much more feedback to your senses. For street use, I enjoy the Scuderia a lot more. Let's be clear, that the standard F430 and the 458 Italia are really soft and isolated, when compared to a GT3 of any type, but that is their intended purpose.
I have not driven the 4.0RS yet, but have driven every GT3 since 2004. The 4.0RS is essentially a 3.8RS with the wonderful RSR crankshaft and the 50Hp increase, 3.8RS and 4.0RS are only 22 lbs apart.
The RS long and low nose makes street driving a little challenging, the Scuderia is not a problem in this area.
The Scuderia air intakes sit high and next to your ears, the engine is right behind the driver (low isolation), contrary to the 4.0RS engine being as far away from the driver as possible. The Scuderia exhaust outlets sit high, producing a sound easier to be reached by the driver. It is the combination of the flat crank V8, 8500rpm redline, intake, engine and exhaust sound that makes the experience unique.
There are 3 settings for the suspension, with the softest mode being very comfortable, and the hard mode not being that hard. I run Sebring with stiffer springs compared to stock, and hard suspension setting on my re-valved Sachs.
Weak points on the Scuderia: brake cooling, expensive brake pads, vastly expensive brake rotors, the stock headers. I'm still working on a solution for the brakes with some help from Performance Friction and the folks at BimmerWorld (James and Seth). It requires time, but eventually a new set of calipers, rotors, and affordable brake pads will resolve the weakness. There are other brake kits available from Brembo and StopTech, with minor work involved on their installation, still not what I consider a top of the line system (which the 4.0RS doesn't have anyway). Brake cooling is achieved by using either 599GTO cooling ducts, or F430 Challenge cooling ducts, bolt-on pieces. Headers are made by FabSpeed or Capristo, I run Capristo.
The Scuderia is 108 lbs lighter than the 4.0 RS, and 130 lbs lighter than the 3.8RS. The 4.0RS can be made lighter with some options, and the same applies to the Scuderia.
Lap Times around the Nurburgring tell something, 4.0RS 7:27 vs. Scuderia 7:39, throw in the GTR,ZR1,Z06, times and the Scuderia should be the slowest car on track. But, I have yet to see my Scuderia losing 4 secs to a 4.0RS or 2 secs to a 3.8RS at Sebring, so no idea how Fiat setups a car for the Nurburgring, but they must be doing something wrong.
Scuderia used prices have stayed flat for 18 months. The only ones getting cheaper are the ones getting more miles. Depreciation will be dictated by miles. Recently, the market has being getting hot on the Scuderia, people switching from 458 Italia, F430, Stradale to Scuderia. There is a nice Scuderia community.
So far, with all my hard driving, drag races, autocrosses, track days, canyon driving around Los Angeles Crest HWY, it is been the most affordable car I have owned. After 3 years, I'm still on my original brake rotors, clutch, everything except tires and brake pads.
For dedicated track use, 4.0RS is a better car (more affordable), but an older GT3 Cup could be an even better option.
For street car, I prefer the Scuderia, but you can't go wrong with the 4.0RS. You already have a 3.8RS, so the 4.0RS will feel like a 3.8RS with more power, and it you want more power on a car under $200k, there are other choices, like the ZR1, Viper ACR, SLS, even a Camaro or a Mustang.
If you can keep the 3.8RS (best Porsche bargain) and get a Scuderia, that would bring you so much more fun than a 4.0RS alone.
Great post and very informative. I have been thinking about a used scud for some time and the information you provide is invaluable. 3 years and only tires/brakes pads! That's great!
Thank you.
02-20-2012, 07:50 PM
#54
hold on a second! Come-on!! Rad has not been able to complete a Sebring event to date without any issues, and he signs up 1 or 2 days never 3 or 4 days.
For the track a Porsche GT3RS is a vastly superior and reliable car. The Scuderia is a fun and fast car, but $20,000 for rotors and $2,000 for brake pads that don't seem to last, it is an expensive car to maintain.
When I come to the track, I hate, hate to waste my time fixing a car!!!
Plus secretly Rad really dreams about having an RS 4.0 that has less rubber in its suspension than the Scuderia.
For the track a Porsche GT3RS is a vastly superior and reliable car. The Scuderia is a fun and fast car, but $20,000 for rotors and $2,000 for brake pads that don't seem to last, it is an expensive car to maintain.
When I come to the track, I hate, hate to waste my time fixing a car!!!
Plus secretly Rad really dreams about having an RS 4.0 that has less rubber in its suspension than the Scuderia.
02-20-2012, 08:53 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Awesome car. Especially if you like mild oversteer!
02-20-2012, 08:55 PM
#57
Looks awesome in white!
02-20-2012, 09:38 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
hold on a second! Come-on!! Rad has not been able to complete a Sebring event to date without any issues, and he signs up 1 or 2 days never 3 or 4 days.
For the track a Porsche GT3RS is a vastly superior and reliable car. The Scuderia is a fun and fast car, but $20,000 for rotors and $2,000 for brake pads that don't seem to last, it is an expensive car to maintain.
When I come to the track, I hate, hate to waste my time fixing a car!!!
Plus secretly Rad really dreams about having an RS 4.0 that has less rubber in its suspension than the Scuderia.
For the track a Porsche GT3RS is a vastly superior and reliable car. The Scuderia is a fun and fast car, but $20,000 for rotors and $2,000 for brake pads that don't seem to last, it is an expensive car to maintain.
When I come to the track, I hate, hate to waste my time fixing a car!!!
Plus secretly Rad really dreams about having an RS 4.0 that has less rubber in its suspension than the Scuderia.
Umm- at the top of this section is the thread regarding catastrophic coolant fitting failures on all GT1 based cars. Is that reliability?
02-20-2012, 09:45 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
