Odd Toyo Wear
11-22-2011, 06:07 PM
#31
Race Director
Thread Starter
Up front I have Porsche GT3 Cup lower control arms with Tarret mono ball ends and RSS solid thrust bushings.
String alignment was done by Gavin and Steve at Autoquest
-2.5 front
.5 mm toe out
-2 rear
2mm toe in
I'm thinking of going with a little lees camber....-2.2 and -1.7????
11-22-2011, 06:45 PM
#32
Nordschleife Master
11-22-2011, 06:48 PM
#33
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Mike, your alignment is just fine, and it is good that you only drive the R888 to/from track plus the track day.
I would not run those rear tires unfortunately, they ran under inflated, and that has compromised the inside sidewalls. That happened to me in the Fiat with one of the 5 sets I used, and learned the R888 needed high pressures. I ran them at 42 psi hot front and 44 psi hot rear. Then for the drives home, I would inflate them to 42/44 cold.
The little triangle needs to be visible entirely both on the inside and outside edges of the R888, not matter how old the tires are.
Count the heat cycles, once you have reached 20 HC, that's the end of them. If you drive to/from the event, add 2 HC per day. If you take the car for a drive to lunch in the middle of the track day, and it is plenty hot outside, and that drive is 15 minutes away, add another 2 HC (to/from lunch).
I run my Fiat at -4.2 front and -3.6 rear camber, since May 2011, I will dial it down to -3.5 front and -3.0 rear which is what I have been running since 2009. My RE-11 have been on this aggressive alignment for 14 months, but I use them at 40-44 psi on the streets.
I would not run those rear tires unfortunately, they ran under inflated, and that has compromised the inside sidewalls. That happened to me in the Fiat with one of the 5 sets I used, and learned the R888 needed high pressures. I ran them at 42 psi hot front and 44 psi hot rear. Then for the drives home, I would inflate them to 42/44 cold.
The little triangle needs to be visible entirely both on the inside and outside edges of the R888, not matter how old the tires are.
Count the heat cycles, once you have reached 20 HC, that's the end of them. If you drive to/from the event, add 2 HC per day. If you take the car for a drive to lunch in the middle of the track day, and it is plenty hot outside, and that drive is 15 minutes away, add another 2 HC (to/from lunch).
I run my Fiat at -4.2 front and -3.6 rear camber, since May 2011, I will dial it down to -3.5 front and -3.0 rear which is what I have been running since 2009. My RE-11 have been on this aggressive alignment for 14 months, but I use them at 40-44 psi on the streets.
11-22-2011, 09:24 PM
#34
Race Director
Thread Starter
11-22-2011, 09:31 PM
#35
Race Director
Thread Starter
Mike, your alignment is just fine, and it is good that you only drive the R888 to/from track plus the track day.
I would not run those rear tires unfortunately, they ran under inflated, and that has compromised the inside sidewalls. That happened to me in the Fiat with one of the 5 sets I used, and learned the R888 needed high pressures. I ran them at 42 psi hot front and 44 psi hot rear. Then for the drives home, I would inflate them to 42/44 cold.
The little triangle needs to be visible entirely both on the inside and outside edges of the R888, not matter how old the tires are.
Count the heat cycles, once you have reached 20 HC, that's the end of them. If you drive to/from the event, add 2 HC per day. If you take the car for a drive to lunch in the middle of the track day, and it is plenty hot outside, and that drive is 15 minutes away, add another 2 HC (to/from lunch).
I run my Fiat at -4.2 front and -3.6 rear camber, since May 2011, I will dial it down to -3.5 front and -3.0 rear which is what I have been running since 2009. My RE-11 have been on this aggressive alignment for 14 months, but I use them at 40-44 psi on the streets.
I would not run those rear tires unfortunately, they ran under inflated, and that has compromised the inside sidewalls. That happened to me in the Fiat with one of the 5 sets I used, and learned the R888 needed high pressures. I ran them at 42 psi hot front and 44 psi hot rear. Then for the drives home, I would inflate them to 42/44 cold.
The little triangle needs to be visible entirely both on the inside and outside edges of the R888, not matter how old the tires are.
Count the heat cycles, once you have reached 20 HC, that's the end of them. If you drive to/from the event, add 2 HC per day. If you take the car for a drive to lunch in the middle of the track day, and it is plenty hot outside, and that drive is 15 minutes away, add another 2 HC (to/from lunch).
I run my Fiat at -4.2 front and -3.6 rear camber, since May 2011, I will dial it down to -3.5 front and -3.0 rear which is what I have been running since 2009. My RE-11 have been on this aggressive alignment for 14 months, but I use them at 40-44 psi on the streets.
The pics I posted are all of just 1 tire a Fremont tire. The fronts inside is wearing more than the rears although the rears are doing the same odd wear pattern on the inside edge.
That's for the help on this....thanks to everyone for there input on this thread.
11-22-2011, 10:01 PM
#36
I totally disagree with those r888 temps.
Less camber and way lower psi is better IMO.
-2.3/-1.9 with hot 31/35 for me was way faster
I sorta liked but basically hated the r888s - but the above is where I ended up with a setup that felt good for me.
So much of this setup stuff is feel and everything else you have done to your car's suspension - is your tire your spring or are your springs your spring, the amount of bar you like, how much rotation you like, etc, etc.
The lower I could run the R888s the better I liked them.
Less camber and way lower psi is better IMO.
-2.3/-1.9 with hot 31/35 for me was way faster
I sorta liked but basically hated the r888s - but the above is where I ended up with a setup that felt good for me.
So much of this setup stuff is feel and everything else you have done to your car's suspension - is your tire your spring or are your springs your spring, the amount of bar you like, how much rotation you like, etc, etc.
The lower I could run the R888s the better I liked them.
11-23-2011, 10:43 AM
#37
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Generally, the lower you can run any tire the better, because you increase the contact patch. I run the A6 as low as 24 psi hot.
If I had followed Toyo's recommendation, I would have damaged my R888 prematurely, it happened to one set.
Per Hoosier, I should be running 40 psi front and 44 psi rear on my A6, and I have found 24/28 to be the fine spot, Hoosier still insists on recommending high tire pressures.
Nobody ran more R888 than the Spec Boxster guys, my Spec Boxster was setup with -3.0 front camber and -2.5 rear camber, and the R888 ran at 38 front 40psi rear. In between 2009 and 2010 I ran through 5 sets of these R888 in the Fiat, and they were decently fast, but for such a short life, I switched to a different tire.
The picture of the R888 by Mike is from a tire running at too low pressures, that tire was riding on the edge, and it ate beyond the little arrow (triangle) where the R888 tread ends. When a tire is ridden beyond the tread, that tire starts riding on the sidewalls, deformation occurs on the sidewalls and they wear out.
The consequences of running too low pressures on a tire are unexpected but they look like this:
and this
If I had followed Toyo's recommendation, I would have damaged my R888 prematurely, it happened to one set.
Per Hoosier, I should be running 40 psi front and 44 psi rear on my A6, and I have found 24/28 to be the fine spot, Hoosier still insists on recommending high tire pressures.
Nobody ran more R888 than the Spec Boxster guys, my Spec Boxster was setup with -3.0 front camber and -2.5 rear camber, and the R888 ran at 38 front 40psi rear. In between 2009 and 2010 I ran through 5 sets of these R888 in the Fiat, and they were decently fast, but for such a short life, I switched to a different tire.
The picture of the R888 by Mike is from a tire running at too low pressures, that tire was riding on the edge, and it ate beyond the little arrow (triangle) where the R888 tread ends. When a tire is ridden beyond the tread, that tire starts riding on the sidewalls, deformation occurs on the sidewalls and they wear out.
The consequences of running too low pressures on a tire are unexpected but they look like this:
and this
11-23-2011, 12:41 PM
#38
Again, I 'kinda' disagree.
I ran low pressures and didn't have this issue with the arrows - I believe he had too much camber and the inside edge was wearing, over the arrow, because of camber.
When I first installed my R888s I had too much camber and the wear (inside vs outside via the arrows) was obvious. After I reduced the camber, there was a significant improvement - significant.
I think, given the cambers you were running, you had to run the higher pressures to get that balance. I went the other way to get the balance - less camber - less psi.
I have 'some' proof that my approach is not incorrect. When one of the well know racing series visited Mosport in 2010 - the spec tire was the R888 (2009/2010 cups, vets, volvos, vipers, etc). I know one of the drivers (2009 cup) and spent the day with him on the practice day. They were running Hot temps mid 30s, running much lower than standard Cup camber rates and actually running spring rates below what I now have on my car (obviously cup car is lighter) - 700#/800# springs, mid 30s Hot. T
I ran low pressures and didn't have this issue with the arrows - I believe he had too much camber and the inside edge was wearing, over the arrow, because of camber.
When I first installed my R888s I had too much camber and the wear (inside vs outside via the arrows) was obvious. After I reduced the camber, there was a significant improvement - significant.
I think, given the cambers you were running, you had to run the higher pressures to get that balance. I went the other way to get the balance - less camber - less psi.
I have 'some' proof that my approach is not incorrect. When one of the well know racing series visited Mosport in 2010 - the spec tire was the R888 (2009/2010 cups, vets, volvos, vipers, etc). I know one of the drivers (2009 cup) and spent the day with him on the practice day. They were running Hot temps mid 30s, running much lower than standard Cup camber rates and actually running spring rates below what I now have on my car (obviously cup car is lighter) - 700#/800# springs, mid 30s Hot. T
