roberga

I have been at the track twice when a car dropped fluid on the surface and the Porsche behind skied off rolled and totaled. Nothing the driver could do both >125mph. Safety equipment was important for both.

aussie jimmy

that is the crux of it, right there. happened to me. happens to everybody, eventually if you do it enough.
it's a numbers game, and when your number comes up, be prepared, trained and ready
to minimise the severity of the outcome.
i am amazed by people who ride motorcycles. truly in awe. as much as i love cars and speed, i have never, ever, wanted to get on a motorcycle. the risk is way too high, and no amount of experience, or precaution will protect you from 1 variable out a million that can happen.

kyrocks

I treat visa/mc like cash. If I don't have the funds to pay it off when the bill comes, I don't buy it. I guess I'll just enjoy the car on the street for a couple of months until the time is right to pull the trigger on safety mods.

911rox

"The pot calling the kettle black" hey Jimmy, lol

I agree 100% with the safety message being put forward here and live under no pretence that "it won't happen to me" and make no excuses.

Like Kyrocks, I'm there to have some fun and to learn and invest $$$ in a pro driver to teach me the ropes and keep me well within my limits. I use laptiming equipment to measure improvement, not seek best lap times as I won't drive something at the limit if I can't replace it.

He crashes cars at 300kmh for a living and is verrrry safety conscious yet is willing to get in the car without a helmet... Its not because he's stupid, its because thats the level of risk for our particular situation. We've had numerous discussions about safety and equipment...

On my last track day, due to rain, i was the only car on the track for 5 of 7 hours...

Please also note that the incident involving the 2rs was claimed to have happened at 180mph... In anything less than a pro drivers hands, it was an accident waiting to happen. Driving beyond one's abilities probably has much to answer for with many incidents...

tlarocque

Ok, no offense kyrocks, but, based on the stable of cars you have listed there, I would think a few thousand bucks for roll bar, harnesses, etc. should be within reach. Now, if you simply have other priorities right now, that's understandable. Just be safe in the meantime.

mooty

i dont mean that...
1. if you have cage, harness etc, go ahead and drive like an idiot
2. if you have safety equipment, you are death defying
3. that everyone needs a full on race car or cage, as some ppl use their cars for work and weekend drives too, i get it.

the point is if you track a lot, get a roll bar and fit some harness in it and be safe. if you have rear seats, then 3 points with one of those neck devices that's workable with 3pt belts.

silverboy

Wake up call indeed.

But the tracks I go to here in the Phil's aren't too fast. One gets you to a top speed of about 100 mph and the other about 125 mph on the main straight.

Nick Wong

Quite an assumption you have there.

I've been punted off in a formula car at over 100mph. I've also been punted off in a lay down kart at over 100mph and been punted on the oval at Daytona in a TaG sprint kart at over 100mph. I've raced enough in different classes over the years to know what I can and should not do in a street car on the track during a DE/open track event. Those aren't races and I have nothing to prove in that venue.

You are describing actions that are out of your control. If you are worried about that you shouldn't get out of bed. Let's face it, NOTHING can be controlled by a driver except for his/her actions behind the wheel of the vehicle. If you go the track in a street car, prepare it or drive within it's limitations, or suffer the consequences when something does go wrong! If you think a roll cage and all the safety equipment in the world will save you from being a moron on the track you're sadly mistaken. Safety solutions are engineered products- which means they only work within the confines of the design- if the accident isn't within those parameters you are screwed! How much risk are you willing to assume, and where does the benefit get outweighed by the cost? Those are value judgements each individual has to make on their own, and the more experience you have the better judge you are for your requirements.

Ritesh

Great discussion!!

A few years ago I concluded that continually modding my NSX to make it a great track car wasn't a smart decision. The NSX became a DE car without a cage yet I was running track suspension, R-compounds, Harnesses etc etc. When insurance completely stopped covering track incidents.... I bought a Spec Miata. It has a full roll cage, harnesses, and is basically a "disposable track car". My GT3 sees the track only once a year. Kinda pathetic but IMHO if you are truly serious about tracking a 911 then get a cup car. Otherwise everything else is a compromise in safety and performance.

kyrocks

You're right but things have changed for me recently (for the better in the long run). Anyone interested in a very nice house in Iowa?! Thanks for everyone's advice. Take care too.

mooty

i am not worried about those uncontrollable variables. i am just saying some ppl are dilusional and do not have even the minimum safety prep. case in point, if you have a C2 with rear seats, and do a few DE sure, 3 point belt should suffice given calculated risk and drive driving within their limit. but subject was driving a GT2RS, a rather fast car and has no useful rear seating. i didn't see the pix but it SHOULD have roll bar in the back and should have harness and some type of H&N device. would he be saved? not sure. but i would rather gamble with roll bar, harness, H&N device than without.

i get your point of diminishing return. putting a full cage in a street car with interior and AC is beyond point of diminishing return. but i dont think this particular GT2RS or those who aren't wearing H&N device have reached the point of dim. return yet.

caveat: i am speaking of those who does 15-20+ days a year. if someone does 1-2 DE a yer, then certainly some of these improvements may be over doing it. i think we are speaking the same subject with passion. just some symmetric differences. u are saying some ppl drive beyond limit. yes, that's moronic and if one purposely does that to test the usefulness of safety equipment .... that's insane. but if one does drive within limits, they should still be well prep'd with safety items.

deputydog95

I thought I was going to get a Hans device. Now you people have totally confused me with all the options...

James-GMG

This thread is exactly why we decided to build our own roll bar for the 996/997 street cars, modeled directly from the Cup car.
Week in and week out we would have clients coming into the shop asking for the latest go fast part as they described their desire to track their car and the first thing we ask them is, "do you have a roll bar and harness planned for this car"?

This is the first thing we stress to anyone who plans to track their car, even if just a few times a year because as we have all pointed out, anything can happen.

I have been racing since 1994 on a Pro level and I have seen it all. Luckily I had the proper safety equipment even back then but now when I instruct for an individual in a street car, I am hesitant to go out in a car without a roll bar and harness.

One blown tire, one oil patch, one errant driver.......that's all it takes to put you off course and into a wall/barrier/another car.

A roll bar combined with a harness is probably the most important track car upgrade you can make if you choose to track your street car. The bar lets you properly mount a 5 point harness so you are securely fastened in your seat in the event of a roll over. The performance advantage is that you are pushed down in your seat with the harness and you can get a better feel for the grip levels of the car due to less movement in the seat.

In the end, we can only recommend the safety equipment for our clients and lately most have agreed to the upgrade once they realize their upgraded GT3 goes almost as fast as a Cup car.

mdrums

If you are near me today come over and I'll show you my Safety Solutions R3....you can try it on...even though my straps will be big for you or you could try on my neighbors R3 since he is more your size.

I like the Safety Solutions R3 because I can use it in a 3 point belt when I instruct and it works like a HANS or possibly better in my 6 point harness.

Fritz Flynn

Hi Mike,
I recently switched to the F1 style harnesses and they work great. I highly recommend them to anyone with a HANS.

You can never be too safe and threads like this always make me feel guilty for not having the utmost in safety equipment.

I'd love to own a 996 cup and have visions of getting one at some point however if I owned one I'd surely race and talk about increasing your chances of a hard impact.

PS there's two sides to every coin and this crash looked very serious so considering the passenger survived with minor injuries apparently his safety equipment was VERY GOOD. No need to elaborate too much but clearly no matter what decisions we make there's always give and take and looking at the big picture and using some common sense is usually the clearest path.