RD16RR

-- a GT2......well....with starting price of $245,000, my bank acct will only tolerate a given limit of "irrational exuberance".....i'll be happy to pull off a gt3rs with something left over for a set of R11's........(Nugget recommended).....but with the 4.0 entering the scene now, there is enough going on now for me to vacillate this to eternity

RD16RR

-- just for the record....i don't have to ask......i want to

tripleblack

You're thinking of a GT2RS. A low mileage '08/'09 GT2 can be had for a much more reasonable price.

mooty

no downside other than being say too
fast on the streets

Nugget

Sure, it's just not a very good street car. The GTS is a much better street car.

Now you're just being silly. That's not even remotely close to the truth.

ChrisF

Great discussion. I just picked up a .2 GT3 and as far as I'm concerned, the car is VERY livable on the street. Remember, opinions are all relative. Some may have come from cushy cruisers, then get in a GT3 and think "OH MY GOD this car is rough!". I daily drove a track prepped EVO VIII for a couple of years and it makes the GT3 feel downright luxurious. The "heavy" clutch for me feels perfect. My biggest complaint so far is the scraping of the nose. I have since adopted the spoilers-as-consumable theory and the sound bothers me much less. I think of the scraping sound like brake squeal - just a part of the car doing it's job

Ideally, any person who would buy one of these cars would take it to the track and reap all the benefits it has to offer. That said, I think it can still be enjoyed thoroughly on the streets at less than 10/10ths.

Medicopter

Yep, got pulled over twice but fortunately no ticket.

9972RS

It's way too easy to drive fast with the rs. Before I knew it, I was in 3 digits.

911dev

^^ None of the aforementioned cars can be truly appreciated on the street. A GTS may be a nice ride but it's no GT3/RS. And, I really wouldn't consider one now that the 991 "S" will be debuted in Sept and available in Jan-Feb. 2012. Good bet that even the 991 "S" won't be as fun as a GT3/RS, but it's fair to say the 991 "S" will be better than 997 GTS.

Laguna_Dude

I think the "too fast for the streets" is not the RS' fault. In reality, this is more of an issue of is there a purpose in owning fast cars and only driving them on the street? In theory, with traffic, speed limits, pedestrians, etc., it really is an ignorant and delusional concept that owning a super fast car is fun on the streets. It's really not. Especially once you've driven on a track.

For example, I just went for a joy ride in my new Boxster Spyder (just cruising top-down) and some idiot in an orange Lambo kept revving his loud exhaust and drag racing each light... only to run into traffic a couple hundred yards later and was forced to slow down. I watched him do this all the way up the PCH. Even in the turns; there's always some idiot in front that ruins it. Or the light turns red. Or worse you lose control. Or get caught doing excessive speeds and get taken to jail, car impounded, etc. I can only speak for SoCal, but owning a super fast and expensive car is a complete waste, IMO and experience. I've seen the light. And any future street cars will be under $100k for me. And when I get a 991 RS, it will be essentially a track car.

Now an RS is a nice compromise in some regards for those wanting that "race car" experience. As A.) it's not that expensive in the realm of it's performance, B.) it is virtually indestructible and can take track beatings in stride, unlike many other exotics that simply don't have the stamina. So you can with a limited investment, play around on the streets (same as any other fast, expensive car), but it offers the ability to really enjoy it on the track without losing a ton of $$$ (like if you track a Carrera GT, etc.).

rodsky

I'm not sure the 991 is going to be a much "better" car than a GTS. Two things a) it has a longer wheel base b) it has less HP..

And... you can get a GTS today.

Nordschleife

How often, on track, do you brake from 180 mph to 0 mph, on cold rotors and pads?

On the track, never, on the Autobahn, several times a day. The energy to be dissipated as heat when braking from 180 to 120 is 4 times greater than it is between 120 to 60. Good drivers get hard on the brakes as early as possible as they achieve maximum retardation that way, giving them a better choice of options as they approach the tailback.

Remember, it is still absolutely legal to drive at over 200 mph on many stretches of the autobahn.

No I'm not being silly, it is absolutely true.

R+C

911dev

The 991 may have 8 hp less, which none of us would likely feel. It will also weigh less. Who says that the longer wheelbase is a bad thing? We'll see when the car arrives. It will very likely handle better.

Nugget

On the street, even the legendary autobahn, there's plenty of time and airflow for the brakes to shed the heat from braking. Even 180 to 0, as dramatic as that sounds, is only done (as you say) a few times in a day. That's a piece of cake for even the brakes on a base, non-S Carrera.

The larger brakes on the GT3 are only relevant on the track when you're braking hard repeatedly, lap after lap, dozens of times a minute. That's when the beefier brake hardware has difficulty keeping up with heat generated by the braking force.

Bigger brakes are not about stopping this time. They're about stopping next time too. Even on the autobahn there's plenty of time before you brake again for the airflow to effectively wick away the heat.

And neither "180 to 120" or "120 to 60" require GT3 brakes, unless you're doing it many times a lap over the course of a 30 minute session. The tracks that are hardest on the brakes, in fact, aren't even necessarily the tracks where you see the greatest speeds. Here in my region, the "fastest" track is Texas World Speedway which is really gentle on brakes despite having the longest straight (165 to 30 mph in a GT3 which you repeat about once every two minutes). The track that's truly murder on the brakes is a tiny track (Grandsport Speedway) where the speeds don't even get above 120. It's bad because there are no long straights so the brakes never get much chance to cool at all. 25 minutes at Grandsport and even the GT3 RS brakes will start to fade if you run the OEM pads.

I find it difficult to believe that anyone who has ever driven on a track would think this is correct.

Edit to add: Bringing this all back around to the thread, this is just a detailed example of how the features of a GT3 really aren't relevant on the street. The giant brakes and the effective brake cooling ducts (especially on MY10 and newer) are simply irrelevant for street driving. They don't make the car any more "fun" or "hard core" or "soul satisfying" on the street. You won't even notice they're there unless you're on the track.

Nugget

I do. For the same reason jet fighter aircraft don't have a long wingspan.