SW GT3 3.9L
07-11-2011, 10:47 PM
#31
Drifting
I think what makes the 996 GT3 so special is the way the car takes a set in the corners. For whatever reason (PASM or something else), I never feel like my 997.1 GT3 takes a good set in the corners. I drive by faith rather than feel in this car; in the 996, you can really become one with the car. Does the Boxster Spyder come with PASM or regular dampeners?
07-11-2011, 10:51 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Grand, good point. How much were they asking for the blue GT3?
07-11-2011, 11:36 PM
#34
Addict
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07-11-2011, 11:37 PM
#35
Addict
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07-11-2011, 11:56 PM
#36
I think what makes the 996 GT3 so special is the way the car takes a set in the corners. For whatever reason (PASM or something else), I never feel like my 997.1 GT3 takes a good set in the corners. I drive by faith rather than feel in this car; in the 996, you can really become one with the car. Does the Boxster Spyder come with PASM or regular dampeners?
I had the chance to drive 200 miles in 996 GT3 then 200 miles in the 997 GT3 and to my criteria (being able to get out of the car without aches and pains) the 997 was the slam dunk.
Side by side at the track, I never could really declare the superior car -- the 997.1 had done a lot, it was more stable at higher speeds and it could turn quicker times in amateur hands, but despite its power advantage, there never was much in it to be decisive.
By the way, the Boxster Spyder has conventional dampers. You'll probably find photos of it by searching posts by savyboy.
07-12-2011, 12:03 AM
#37
Instructor
Thread Starter
no need to be nervous! I'm very close to having 15,000 miles on my 3.9. When I hit that mark, which could be later this week, I will give everyone an update. I have enjoyed every trouble free mile to date! I promise you will be very pleased
07-12-2011, 12:09 AM
#38
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
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Hard to put the 996 GT3 ahead of the 997.2 RS. I think you drove my 996 GT3 and my 997.2 RS is no different than stock -- thinking about comparing those two cars, there's no doubt the .2 RS is far superior. Curb weight is about the same, power delivery and gearing is brilliant, steering feel and feedback is better, apex speeds are mind-boggling and stability at the limits of grip is an ear to ear grin.
It's really only the effusive praise for the 4.0 engine that has me willing to fork over the dough, otherwise, if the 4.0 price was higher or the spec was lower, I'd be happy to stay in the 3.8 probably forever and just back to tinkering with 993's. After all, most of what I do to "improve" a 997 is just to make it feel more like a 993 but with more grip in the rear suspension. : )
Speaking of grip, the .2 RS implementation of PASM isn't upset on the track -- at least, within my limits, I don't feel like the suspension is letting me down. Maybe once I get an LSD in this 3.8 I'll change my tune about the dampers. Someone coming out of another 911 with better dampers probably detects what's missing, but I'm only ever in the RS, so it's familiar without any contempt.
I'm looking forward to the 4.0 and would certainly be open to pulling out the PASM and putting in even a pretty ordinary set of springs and dampers -- I'm not interested in doing the R&D for myself, so once you or Chris Harris or JVO or someone reviews some aftermarket suspension upgrades for the .2 GT3 and RS, I'll be happy to take a turnkey solution that doesn't have me tweaking fast and slow settings, etc.
It's really only the effusive praise for the 4.0 engine that has me willing to fork over the dough, otherwise, if the 4.0 price was higher or the spec was lower, I'd be happy to stay in the 3.8 probably forever and just back to tinkering with 993's. After all, most of what I do to "improve" a 997 is just to make it feel more like a 993 but with more grip in the rear suspension. : )
Speaking of grip, the .2 RS implementation of PASM isn't upset on the track -- at least, within my limits, I don't feel like the suspension is letting me down. Maybe once I get an LSD in this 3.8 I'll change my tune about the dampers. Someone coming out of another 911 with better dampers probably detects what's missing, but I'm only ever in the RS, so it's familiar without any contempt.
I'm looking forward to the 4.0 and would certainly be open to pulling out the PASM and putting in even a pretty ordinary set of springs and dampers -- I'm not interested in doing the R&D for myself, so once you or Chris Harris or JVO or someone reviews some aftermarket suspension upgrades for the .2 GT3 and RS, I'll be happy to take a turnkey solution that doesn't have me tweaking fast and slow settings, etc.
analogy in cycling. if my paycheck depended on it, i would race 3" FS on XC. but if i wanted to have fun, i ride YBB, merlin XLM custom, bridgestone MB1 and 2. most likely crash and kill myself on technical single tracks, but you would crash with conviction instead of wishy washing on a FS rigs.
for me PASM is like the original brain shox on specialized epic. the concept is brilliant but it will take a while to get it right. the brain shox were just a nanosecond late. you ride on dirt enough, you will know what i mean. but on pavement or laboratory the brain shox is perfect.
07-12-2011, 01:14 AM
#39
Nordschleife Master
All fair points, CGT. Here's why I think what I think, and we're now talking more "Pete the enthusiast," less "Pete the editor":
I had two 996 GT3 test cars. Put 1000-1500 miles on each. Also drove several 996 GT3s on track. Spent similar (though not quite as much) time in 997 GT3s and 997 GT3 RSs of both generations, plus more track time in the 997s than the 996s. Here's the difference for me, personally: You couldn't get me out of the 996 GT3s, imperfect as they were (and they were), but I was never all that bummed to get out of the 997s. Loop in mixed/varied wet-dry (by far the most treacherous situation) in 996 GT3 with no PSM? Yum. Setting up a sound system in Union Square for a Christmas concert? After loading the main truck, I loaded a crate of heavy wires and other equipment in a 6 GT3 and drove it over to the unloading zone —*just to spend more time in/around it. Didn't even occur to me at the time why I was doing that, and I am VERY cautious with press cars. In contrast, the 997-1 GT3 RS sat in the warehouse for one of the weekends it was here.
The various 997 GT3s, while very, very good, simply haven't had quite the effect on me that the 996 GT3 did. I like the way the 7 GT3s look better, like their interiors better, like their torque better, like their grip, like their speed, like their brakes, and like them in general — but I don't like them better.
After the 997 GT2 RS vs. GT3 RS test (1000+ miles on road and track), I was pretty happy to get out of those cars (and, lest you think I'm going soft, I found commuting to work through SF and 14-hour days in CTR 001 to be good fun). Part of that why I didn't mind getting out of the 997 GT3s is the same reason I usually don't mind giving press cars back: They're a ton of responsibility. But there was something else at work, too. Something harder to define. Over 14 years, three Porsche press cars were particularly tough to hand back: 996 GT3, Carrera GT, and Boxster Spyder. This is hard to quantify, but they were all three of them magical cars that went beyond their performance in any given set of categories. None of the 997 GT3s quite "got there" for me in the same way the 6 GT3 did, though the RS 3.8 was certainly very, very close...
pete
I had two 996 GT3 test cars. Put 1000-1500 miles on each. Also drove several 996 GT3s on track. Spent similar (though not quite as much) time in 997 GT3s and 997 GT3 RSs of both generations, plus more track time in the 997s than the 996s. Here's the difference for me, personally: You couldn't get me out of the 996 GT3s, imperfect as they were (and they were), but I was never all that bummed to get out of the 997s. Loop in mixed/varied wet-dry (by far the most treacherous situation) in 996 GT3 with no PSM? Yum. Setting up a sound system in Union Square for a Christmas concert? After loading the main truck, I loaded a crate of heavy wires and other equipment in a 6 GT3 and drove it over to the unloading zone —*just to spend more time in/around it. Didn't even occur to me at the time why I was doing that, and I am VERY cautious with press cars. In contrast, the 997-1 GT3 RS sat in the warehouse for one of the weekends it was here.
The various 997 GT3s, while very, very good, simply haven't had quite the effect on me that the 996 GT3 did. I like the way the 7 GT3s look better, like their interiors better, like their torque better, like their grip, like their speed, like their brakes, and like them in general — but I don't like them better.
After the 997 GT2 RS vs. GT3 RS test (1000+ miles on road and track), I was pretty happy to get out of those cars (and, lest you think I'm going soft, I found commuting to work through SF and 14-hour days in CTR 001 to be good fun). Part of that why I didn't mind getting out of the 997 GT3s is the same reason I usually don't mind giving press cars back: They're a ton of responsibility. But there was something else at work, too. Something harder to define. Over 14 years, three Porsche press cars were particularly tough to hand back: 996 GT3, Carrera GT, and Boxster Spyder. This is hard to quantify, but they were all three of them magical cars that went beyond their performance in any given set of categories. None of the 997 GT3s quite "got there" for me in the same way the 6 GT3 did, though the RS 3.8 was certainly very, very close...
pete
07-12-2011, 01:16 AM
#40
Nordschleife Master
I just sent a big check to Sharkwerks for the 3.9L upgrade to my 997.1 GT3. I'll have 3.9L car #14 I'm told. Does anyone here have one? Comments? Alex has been great to work with, and everything I've read of the rebuild is very positive.....but I'm nervous. My 3rd child is going under the knife.
Post #1
Post #1
07-12-2011, 01:53 AM
#41
Rennlist Member
All fair points, CGT. Here's why I think what I think, and we're now talking more "Pete the enthusiast," less "Pete the editor":
I had two 996 GT3 test cars. Put 1000-1500 miles on each. Also drove several 996 GT3s on track. Spent similar (though not quite as much) time in 997 GT3s and 997 GT3 RSs of both generations, plus more track time in the 997s than the 996s. Here's the difference for me, personally: You couldn't get me out of the 996 GT3s, imperfect as they were (and they were), but I was never all that bummed to get out of the 997s. Loop in mixed/varied wet-dry (by far the most treacherous situation) in 996 GT3 with no PSM? Yum. Setting up a sound system in Union Square for a Christmas concert? After loading the main truck, I loaded a crate of heavy wires and other equipment in a 6 GT3 and drove it over to the unloading zone —*just to spend more time in/around it. Didn't even occur to me at the time why I was doing that, and I am VERY cautious with press cars. In contrast, the 997-1 GT3 RS sat in the warehouse for one of the weekends it was here.
The various 997 GT3s, while very, very good, simply haven't had quite the effect on me that the 996 GT3 did. I like the way the 7 GT3s look better, like their interiors better, like their torque better, like their grip, like their speed, like their brakes, and like them in general — but I don't like them better.
After the 997 GT2 RS vs. GT3 RS test (1000+ miles on road and track), I was pretty happy to get out of those cars (and, lest you think I'm going soft, I found commuting to work through SF and 14-hour days in CTR 001 to be good fun). Part of that why I didn't mind getting out of the 997 GT3s is the same reason I usually don't mind giving press cars back: They're a ton of responsibility. But there was something else at work, too. Something harder to define. Over 14 years, three Porsche press cars were particularly tough to hand back: 996 GT3, Carrera GT, and Boxster Spyder. This is hard to quantify, but they were all three of them magical cars that went beyond their performance in any given set of categories. None of the 997 GT3s quite "got there" for me in the same way the 6 GT3 did, though the RS 3.8 was certainly very, very close.
Interestingly, I've watched a number of friends (3-4 friends) sell their 997-1 GT3s and either drift away from 911s or find the new Boxster Spyder to be what they were really looking for (2 friends).
I know I differ from Harris and many owners on my feelings about the 7 GT3s, and I have a lot of respect for those viewpoints. Let's face it: Harris is on another level as a driver, and the owners I respect, listen to, and envy most are the ones who, like Mooty, Peter, Bob, Peter, you, and others, use these 911s the way they were meant to be...though Snowboarder remains my hero. 50,000+ miles on a 997 GT3, almost all of them on great roads. Totally sandblasted wheel arches and an oil change every other rear tire change? What a life! The fact he adds so much pure joy to my life just by being who he is doesn't hurt, either. The real deal, through and through.
pete
I had two 996 GT3 test cars. Put 1000-1500 miles on each. Also drove several 996 GT3s on track. Spent similar (though not quite as much) time in 997 GT3s and 997 GT3 RSs of both generations, plus more track time in the 997s than the 996s. Here's the difference for me, personally: You couldn't get me out of the 996 GT3s, imperfect as they were (and they were), but I was never all that bummed to get out of the 997s. Loop in mixed/varied wet-dry (by far the most treacherous situation) in 996 GT3 with no PSM? Yum. Setting up a sound system in Union Square for a Christmas concert? After loading the main truck, I loaded a crate of heavy wires and other equipment in a 6 GT3 and drove it over to the unloading zone —*just to spend more time in/around it. Didn't even occur to me at the time why I was doing that, and I am VERY cautious with press cars. In contrast, the 997-1 GT3 RS sat in the warehouse for one of the weekends it was here.
The various 997 GT3s, while very, very good, simply haven't had quite the effect on me that the 996 GT3 did. I like the way the 7 GT3s look better, like their interiors better, like their torque better, like their grip, like their speed, like their brakes, and like them in general — but I don't like them better.
After the 997 GT2 RS vs. GT3 RS test (1000+ miles on road and track), I was pretty happy to get out of those cars (and, lest you think I'm going soft, I found commuting to work through SF and 14-hour days in CTR 001 to be good fun). Part of that why I didn't mind getting out of the 997 GT3s is the same reason I usually don't mind giving press cars back: They're a ton of responsibility. But there was something else at work, too. Something harder to define. Over 14 years, three Porsche press cars were particularly tough to hand back: 996 GT3, Carrera GT, and Boxster Spyder. This is hard to quantify, but they were all three of them magical cars that went beyond their performance in any given set of categories. None of the 997 GT3s quite "got there" for me in the same way the 6 GT3 did, though the RS 3.8 was certainly very, very close.
Interestingly, I've watched a number of friends (3-4 friends) sell their 997-1 GT3s and either drift away from 911s or find the new Boxster Spyder to be what they were really looking for (2 friends).
I know I differ from Harris and many owners on my feelings about the 7 GT3s, and I have a lot of respect for those viewpoints. Let's face it: Harris is on another level as a driver, and the owners I respect, listen to, and envy most are the ones who, like Mooty, Peter, Bob, Peter, you, and others, use these 911s the way they were meant to be...though Snowboarder remains my hero. 50,000+ miles on a 997 GT3, almost all of them on great roads. Totally sandblasted wheel arches and an oil change every other rear tire change? What a life! The fact he adds so much pure joy to my life just by being who he is doesn't hurt, either. The real deal, through and through.
pete
07-12-2011, 02:08 AM
#42
Instructor
Thread Starter
There's a guy on my block with a GTR, and I don't like him. This was cheaper than moving, or buying a GT2 or GT2RS. That, and I've read the Excellence article 3.9 times a day for the past 6 months. Something had to be done.
07-12-2011, 02:26 AM
#44
Instructor
Thread Starter
There's no way I'd own a 997-1 GT3 or GT3 RS and be able to leave the PASM dampers in place, even with the stock engine. There are other changes I would make, too.
pete[/QUOTE]
Pete, Can you expand on this thought a bit? I'm having Alex at SW put the RSS toe steer and rear link kit that he offers in, along with the 3.9 upgrade.
pete[/QUOTE]
Pete, Can you expand on this thought a bit? I'm having Alex at SW put the RSS toe steer and rear link kit that he offers in, along with the 3.9 upgrade.
07-12-2011, 02:31 AM
#45
Rennlist Member
Pete, thank you for the kind words. However I must correct you on the oil change comment, when running the cups I would change oil EVERY rear tire change. With the stock 3.6 I was getting an average of 3200 miles out of the rears and as I am old school I still change oil every 3000 miles. Once I got the 3.9 the rears only lasted an average of 2700 miles. I had to change my system after that and actually log the miles in my computer. Now that I have a set of the new SS's I am all screwed up as it appears as if these things refuse to wear out! I have nearly 2000 miles on this first set and they aren't even close to the wear bars. At 2000 miles on the MPSC's I would be calling the Tire Rack and ordering a set up to send to my tire guy! More on the SS's when I give my 15,000 mile report.
There is no BS in that reason.