TRAKCAR

He does say that the cars are plenty good enough to not have to pull that ****...

Rad did say that the F458 was heavier without much more power then the Strad...

Still GT2RS vs F458, y'know dollar for dollar...

stout

I've long heard about this with re: to the prancers. Also not allowed, or at least seriously discouraged: comparison tests. We ran into that during the days of Sports Car International, which compared what it wanted to and then called it as it saw it many, many times. Of course, there are well-known examples of ringers in the press fleets (anyone remember the extra-trick-spec Z28 that beat the Mustang LX 5.0 in the 1980s, only to be canceled before it reached production?) as well as what I consider questionable "setup" by a team of factory engineers when certain cars have been compared to certain Porsches recently — when PCNA was not offered the same opportunity.

In 15 years in the game, I have heard only once that Porsche press cars are anything more special than customer cars — and that was that they were taken from the production line and nut-and-bolted at Weissach to make sure they were proper. It came from a good source, but not one I trust entirely — and it doesn't really suggest there are gains per se. Also in my testing, I have never driven a private car that didn't drive as well as a press car, assuming the owner hadn't trashed it. On the other hand, I've driven plenty of Porsche press cars that had clearly suffered in the hands of ham-fisted testers. I could probably write an article on them, starting with the Zanzibar 996 Turbo that shifted roughly like a 300,000-mile Fiat 124. Or the 997 GT3 RS with a broken wheel spoke!

There are always minefields when it comes to PR and writing about the cars, but I have to say PAG/PCNA has been good on that score — and potentially spotless compared to the picture painted here.

pete

multi21

This has happened since the beginning of PR and Ferrari is no different than any other company promoting a car that will be closely watched, followed and critiqued to no end. Need I remind you of the recent Nissan GTR dyno numbers on their press cars vs. the road cars?

Years ago, I had the opportunity to drive a "special" car from a well known Japanese brand. In short, I inquired about that car and was told it was not for sale, would never be for sale and it's demise was imminent. I suspect it had specs that were not the same as what I could buy on the car lot. Let's not be so naive to think that the brand on this forum or any other is beyond that.

stout

In fairness, I can understand a manufacturer's desire to have some control over the cars tested as representative of the marque. Where that falls apart is when said manufacturer won't make cars available to be tested — for whatever the reason, including black-balling a media source or a writer. At that point, magazines/websites/etc. will go elsewhere and they can't be blamed so long as they endeavor to do it right.

Top Gear, by the way, is a completely different animal from any other media source. As different to the rest as CR is, but for very different reasons.

pete

stout

I know of no other company that has gotten away with what Ferrari has in this regard. For one: Flat-out forbidding comparison tests by certain outlets under the threat of no more access.

pete

aussie jimmy

down here, MOTOR mag, has as far as i remember,never had an f-car in it's PCOTY annual comparo.
same deal worldwide.
EVO has only recently added them in, dunno how long that will last now that harris is on the payroll....?

TRAKCAR

Write the article

Yes, I get that Top gear is different..

silverboy

Excellent read.

The levels of loyalty among Ferrari car owners is ludicrous. I think they'll renew their pledges regardless of what the press say.

aussie jimmy

most of them don't/can't read anyway.

savyboy

Chris Harris again shows why the enthusiast loves his writing. Integrity always, eventually, wins.

Kudos to you Mr. Harris. You had my respect before, but it is cemented for life now...

ATL Fahrer

+1

Tacet-Conundrum

Remember the first gen ZR1 press cars that were getting silly performance numbers that were never replicated one they got to the consumers?

Hell we smoked a ZR1 with a chipped GNX. But that really ain't saying much since a GNX is quite the missile to begin with.

multi21

The blackballing might be new, but my point was that Ferrari is not the only company that is making their press cars, more "special" as we've seen in the GTR and as pointed out in post #27 about the ZR1.

NJ-GT

Ferrari has been doing the tricked out car testing thing for years.

In 2008 rumor has it that Michael Schumacher, who was actively involved in the development of the 430 Scuderia crashed the Scuderia at the Nurburgring while testing to obtain a fast lap. The Scuderia is badly tuned from the factory suspension wise.

The vast majority of Ferrari owners are a Blind, they trust Ferrari's documentation and nothing else, and if they read about a superior car from another company, they smash that car with excuses going from the Ferrari is faster because Ferrari told me, to the other product doesn't have the history and pedigree.

I posted my springs/sway bar upgrade small project with the Fiat, and comments were so blind as to challenge me to prove that the car got better. I wanted to buy camber shims from the Ferrari parts department to change the alignment, and I was strongly suggested to take the Ferrari Driving Experience training, to resolve the heavy understeer problems I had with the car for months (bad factory setup).The other day, they were questioning my desire and preference to remove the CCB and calipers and go to steel brakes, it was considered a downgrade and a retarded move on my part. Funny thing is that the 2009 and 2010 SCCA-T1 National Champion has mentioned he prefers the steel brakes in the F430 Challenge.

The F458 Italia is a gigantic flop, and people don't want to accept it yet. The only nice improvement is the 7-speed dual clutch close ratio transmission,which is the reason the car puts decent numbers on acceleration. However, the car on the scales is 375 lbs heavier than my Scuderia (which I could have ordered 40 lbs lighter by clicking on some expensive option boxes).

FabSpeed put a F458 Italia on a Dyno, and all they could extract was 450 whp bone stock (on a car rated at 562 Hp).

I got plenty lucky with my Fiat, I bought it brand new and I think I got a car intended to be a press car. The reason being that this car rated at 503Hp in the U.S. is putting (from 3 different owners) 418-426 whp bone stock. Mine (bone stock on the powertrain) puts around 452 whp, which is a substantial difference against 3 other cars.

My car will be 2 years old next month, it has been to numerous autocrosses, time trials and track days, and it performs quite well, it has had the lowest maintenance cost of any car I have owner and used for the same purpose, my only regret is the brakes and finally Brembo has released GTR calipers with 380mm front/rear steel rotors.

By the way, don't believe the Ferrari advertised downforce numbers and aerodynamic tricks either, the 458 Italia is supposed to generate twice the downforce of the 2010 GT3 RS per Ferrari. Sport Auto tested these 2 cars in the wind tunnel at 125 mph, The RS produced 58% more downforce at the rear axle, and while the RS was generating downforce on the front axle as well, the 458 Italia was generating lift (negative downforce) of 70 lbs.

In the meantime, this is one Fiat I really want to buy...

TRAKCAR

Wow, eye opening for (potential) Ferrari owners. And Rad knows numbers..

Abarth.. What a fun daily driver that could be...