911GT3

Has anyone done both? I did the first 2-day Performance school at the Barber, and am going to schedule the second, unless those who have experience suggest I do the Mid Ohio instead. Both? I guess the advantage of the Mid Ohio is I get to use my own car. But the Porsche school is pretty nice.

MJones

Do the Masters at Barber! (PSDS)
Drive Mid ohio as well!
Do both!
Drive everything you can.

It's all about seat time.

MJones

Do as many PCA events as you can.
Arn't Road Atlanta and VIR closer to you?

911GT3

Mid Ohio is about 3.5 h, Barber is about 5.5 but I have friends there for a nice visit. I have never been to Road Atlanta--so will have to look that up. My guess is they probably start earlier there than Ohio given the weather.

mkozink

Use any rationale you can to drive Mid Ohio. I consider Mid Ohio my home track but I have driven both. Barber has some diabolical sections to be certain and the museum can't be beat, but Mid Ohio remains my preference.

Regardless, as MJones stated, it's all about seat time. I instruct for both NORPCA and MORPCA as well as Northern Ohio BMWCCA. I drive Mid Ohio 8-12 weekends a year and it never ceases to amaze me. Plenty of opportunities to run with PCA regions from Ohio, PA, NJ and NY.

malmasri

Indeed I have done both schools and both have top notch instructors..the PSDS is a 5 star all around ...Midohio is a much more technical track, therefore more difficult to master..so no matter how good you maybe..you will always learn something new from the pros. of the MOH school...
personally I would not choose one over the other.....I'd do both like Mjones advised.

deputydog95

The Porsche school is overpriced and somewhat lame. Don't expect to learn anything. Its an experience more than training. You don't receive much in the way of coaching. You basically go through the program and you're done, whether you progress or not. Its best suited for people that have never been on a track before. I was fortunate enough to skip the first school and be admitted to the masters. Don't let the name fool you. Its still very basic.

The 3 day racing school might be interesting, but is somewhere in the neighborhood of 5k. I think the same money could be spent going elsewhere (Skippy school, etc) and getting your racing license, and applying whatever you have left to some private lessons from a pro coach in your own car. IMO

KOAN

I haven't done Porsche School, but I did do Skippy School at Laguna Seca, Derek Daly and MO School, and MO was the best. MO is my home track too. I also instruct for a bunch of local regions, and have been to MO over 50 times. It is a great track. Having said that, Road Atlanta and VIR are pretty fantastic too. ( I've instructed at both of these several times as well) I don't think you could go wrong. If I had to do only one, I'd pick MO. I learned the most about driving in general there.

Hi, Mo!

Carrera GT

I couldn't disagree more! The real cost of taking a modern 911 to the track for a day is comparable to a day at PSDS. More importantly, there's practically no way to get out of the course without learning something signfiicant and taking away knowledge of skills and techniques to go your next "DE track day" and actually have something to practice and improve instead of just doing laps.
This is all utterly disconnected from the experience I had at both the two-day and three-day "race license" events. The coaching is one-on-one and you have your choice of pro drivers and their styles to choose from. Every session gets reviewed by multiple eyes at each of the turns used for teaching specific skills and some sessions are reviewed with data and video. The level of information is adjusted to the individual, but if you're already a highly skilled amateur, the instructors will tailor the information to help you raise your game and focus on real improvement with specifics, not just hand-waving and generalizations.
There's room for improvement in the PSDS, like almost any school, but as it stands, the quality of the instruction is second to none and the value is delivered as advertised. In my humble. : )

deputydog95

Apparently there is a huge difference between the PSDS and race license events..... The PSDS masters course is nothing like you described. I went in 2010 so I'm guessing I received the latest greatest.

I would spend my money elsewhere rather than go through the PSDS event. Especially since Porsche won't let you skip courses to get to the good stuff. I guess it all depends if you want to get pampered or actually learn something. The PSDS will definitely pamper you.

MJones

In the "Two Day Masters" your out on the Course on your own in the second half of the second day.
In the "Three Day Race License" course you are out on track all three days on your own.

You take away what you will from the instructors, but bar none they are some of the best drivers around, all you have to do is ask and LISTEN. They have been there and done that. Andrew Davis, Hurley Haywood.
James Gue, Eric Foss, are no slouches and all compete at competitive levels today.

At least you'll be presented with the correct information!

MJones

It's really not that expensive when you factor in:

Level of Instruction
The cars (including expendables)
The track

Carrera GT

I did "the math" on driving a 997.1 at the track based on several years of keeping rough numbers on consumption (tires, brakes, maintenance, setup, gas, transportation and accommodation) and decided a ballpark $1500 per day was realistic. Factor in depreciation and perhaps consequential resale impact or just push all the variables to the pessimistic and you're at $2K per day if you're at Laguna, it's $300 plus or minus just for the privilege. Factor in initial capital outlay, taxes, insurances and amortize all costs with nothing for street driving (as is my case) and $2K per day is looking optimisitc. Higher still of course for an RS, let alone a 3.8 RS, etc.

If you're in an "ordinary" 911 and you skimp on consumables and insurance and you've had all the up-front costs long since depreciated, maybe you can turn a track day for a couple of hundred on top of the cheapest operators at the cheapest tracks -- you might get in a day for $500 if you tend to ignore any traveling costs or really tally the fuel and food too closely.

So PSDS or any school will have participants at $2K/day and $500/day.

A pro instructor with racing success and 911 expertise could cost $500/day to say $2000/day for the top name drivers. The real cost-benefit is a pretty elastic number. I'd say the real cost component for the instructors as a fraction of the cost per day is probably a tenth or so. But try to get any of their instructors to travel to your track, get accommodation, work a full day and travel home for $200 ... : ) So let's say the effective cost of an instructor is using a local at your track and paying the minimum, $500-ish.

That's about how I penciled out the numbers and it makes a Porsche branded operation in new model cars with one-on-one instruction, debriefs and data acquisition add up to a pretty fair deal. Especially since the whole idea is to increase the value of the driving you can achieve when you go home with new-found skills to practice and refine.

Carrera GT

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I did the 2-day and 3-day course and was allowed to waive the 1-day course based on my documented driving and a thumbs up from someone there that knew me. I shared both events with other locals and I compared notes with other participants on the day. I have no doubt I'm describing PSDS true to the facts. fwiw, I have no affiliation and no benefit in misrepresenting the truth.

This idea of "pamper or learn" is not relevant. PSDS tries to be "top shelf" but still not to be confused with pampering if you really want to pay for white glove. PSDS really is about the driving, not the froufrou stuff.

AudiOn19s

I have no experience with the Porsche school but I'll give another nod to the Mid Ohio school and it's program. The instructors are top notch, the program is well put together and an amazing experience plus there's always something to learn from the track.

Andy