Last weekend for Laguna Seca I installed Pagid Yellow fronts and Blacks rear on my 997S stock pistons and rotors (I think these are the same as the 996tt).

I was hoping to get better braking than my stock pads!

After the first session I was getting a soft pedal with fresh super blue.... after 5 laps I lost almost all braking going in the corkscrew!!!

After pulling in the brakes were smoking and i noticed that my "yellow" front pagids were now WHITE like chalk!

I bled the brakes that night with Gomez's help and tried again....

2nd day...after 4-5 laps my pedal would get soft..

I took the wheels off and noticed that it seems the pads were always in contact with the rotor...i think this was causing excess heat and boiling my fluid..



I'm now doing two things:

1. Increasing airflow to brakes by removing plastic behind my front bumper and allowing more cool air in

2. Changing brake fluid from ATE super blue to Motul 600 or Castrol SRF



Should I get the Castrol to make sure this does not happen again or should I try the MOTUL to see what happens (2 liters of motul are still less than 1 of SRF).

I dont mind paying the extra money for SRF, especially since it has almost 100º more of wet boiling limit

 

Hey Shane

Sorry to hear ATE blue did not correct the problem. I had mixture of ATE blue and Motul that day and brake pedal was firm w.o issue. You will be fine with Motul and it held up super well at Laguna and Thunderhill. Just my 2 cents

 

Thanks for the input Mike.. Im going to flush my system and use some motul.

 

I had the same problem with my 997 GT3. I replaced the pads with pagid RS19's. Excellent pedal pressure and no fade at all.

 

Many Caymans had similar issue as well and unfortunately SRF was not the fix. I do not know if the following analysis is correct, but the last page is a nice quick summary read:

http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxst...-track-13.html

 

It sounds like you're boiling your fluid. The RS-29's (like all race pads) are sensitive to proper bedding. If the pads aren't bedded properly, they will definitely wear and perform differently including running hotter. melting and trashing your rotors.

You've got a lot of front brake bias in your stock ABS programming as well, so I would think that a track like LS would really test them. Be sure that you remove any pad sensor hardware with the Pagids. I initially left the copper backing plates on the fronts when swapping in the RS-29's in my GT3 and it caused overheating and handling problems.

 

what is "proper" bedding for pagids?

 

Take a look at this. I'm sure that there are other methods, but this is what Pagid recommends:

http://www.braketechnology.com/brakepadbedding.html

 

Sounds like you glazed the pads by not bedding them correctly. The brakes are powerful and you still slow the car but with increased pedal pressure. That creates a lot more heat and boils the brake fluid.

Your pads are toast. Replace them, bed properly and use Motul RBF 660 or SRF. You will be happy.

 

Hope that works. Laguna Seca really test your brakes more so than any other tracks around the country ... that's what makes it fun. Hope you will be able to come up with a solution before your next LS visit

 

I think this is the key. Your pads should be very, very slightly in contact with the rotors, enough that you might hear a little squeaky noise, but not enough to hinder the wheel rotating by hand. If there's a lot of friction, the pad may be too thick and is burning up from the friction against the car's HP.

I can't imagine that you're able to burn up a set of Pagid Yellows any other way, they are a pretty tough pad and can take a ton of abuse and hard driving. I'd check that first before looking to the fluids. For fluids, I've used Motul RBF600 which works really well and am trying the Endless RF650 this year.

 

We made some Ti pucks for the 997 calipers in GA Cup, if they are the same size you have that option to keep the heat out of the fluid. Plus, we made some pretty novel fans to cool the eye of the rotor that helped. When we did World Challenge the best idea for this type of car (way too heavy by rule with not much brake) was the water injected water misting system that activates by the brake lights. There are ways to solve the problem, but with varying efficiency and cost.

 

Why are the pads toasted???

I did bed them correctly according to pagid standards...

this seems ridiculous to have to throw them away!

 

I don't believe the pads are toast. They turn white after they are properly bedded. I use SRF with Pagid yellow front and Pagid black rear on my, heavier than your car, turbo and never have brake problems. I did upgrade the fronts to the GT3 6 piston calipers with larger pads, plus the larger RS brake ducts. ATE blue, IMO is crap, works for some guys but they are constantly bleeding their systems and seems like a PITA to me. SRF is put in and forget about. I go a full season on a yearly flush.

 

mobonic, you and I sort of run the same car, at least our brakes are the same so....yes your Yellows will turn white and race pads will transfer more heat to your calipers so I found that ATE Blue is complete junk. I use Motul RBF600 or 660. Make sure you DO NOT use any of the anti-squeal plates on the front calipers and the anti-squeal buttons on the rear calipers. I am sure you noticed that the Pagid pads are a lot thicker than your stock street pads.
Maybe some close up and clear good photo's of your pads and rotors and we can tell if your glazed them up.