mikymu

I can't help but wonder why Porsche carbon ceramic brakes cost so much. The material used must be extracted from Mt Olympus and made with thousand lighting rods under the watchful eyes of Zeus. That has to be it or why would it cost as much as a full year college tuition? Then there is another question, do all carbon ceramic brakes cost the same across different automaker and who make these amazing light and durable rotors?

Well, the first question was easy. It turns out that Brembo and it's domestic partner SGL group were happily married in 2009 and make these amazing ceramic brakes as follow:




"Brembo SGL Carbon Ceramic Brakes S.p.A., a fifty-fifty joint venture between Brembo and SGL Group, is a leading company in manufacturing of composite ceramic braking systems for automotive and in research and development for innovative materials.
The carbon/carbon material is being used since 1970’s for braking systems for aerospace vehicles and since 1980’s for the racing world. Since 2000’s, the Carbon Ceramic Material (CCM) is being used in the production of braking systems for sport cars.
The CCM guarantees advantages in terms of performance in dry and wet conditions, weight, comfort, corrosion resistance, high lifetime and technical image."

Here is another Brembo SGL article

The second question is complicated. Is the price of the carbon ceramic brakes the same across the board? Why of course NOT! I did some research and found out that a complete set of Porsche carbon ceramic rotors are THREE TIMES more expensive than a set of carbon ceramic rotors on a Corvette ZR1. Same manufacturer, same material and ZR1 rotors are larger than PCCB but three times cheaper??

Each of ZR1's carbon ceramic rotor can be had for $1233.96 from gmpartsdirect compare with an average price of $4075.25 per PCCB rotor. So I ask the question again, why does PCCB cost three time more than ZR1's ceramic rotor? The PORSCHE sticker can not be that expensive and PCCB does not stop better than ZR1. Matter of fact ZR1's ceramic brakes took 142 feet to stop from 70 mph which was the shortest stopping distance Car and Driver ever recorded on a production car.

PCCB price justified? ... I say NO.

Here is a nice article from Brembo on ZR1 ceramic brakes:

BREMBO WINS FIRST OE CORVETTE FITMENT
First Use of Carbon Ceramic Brake Discs on North America Production Car

DETROIT, January 13, 2008 – Brembo took the opportunity of the North American International Auto Show (NAIAS) today to showcase major original equipment (OE) fitments on two of America’s top performancevehicles, including the Corvette ZR1,



the highest-performing production car in General Motors’ history.
The 2009 Corvette ZR1 debuting at NAIAS will be the first-ever North American production car to be fitted with Brembo’s state-of-the-art carbon ceramic brake discs (CCM), developed and produced by the company in its Kilometro Rosso R&D Center in northern Italy. In 2004, this leading-edge technology received the “Golden Compass,” the most significant award in Europe for engineering design.



The ZR1, Corvette’s long-awaited and widely praised “supercar,” will join the ranks of Ferrari’s Enzo, Challenge Stradale, FF430, 575 HGTC and 612 Scaglietti, FXX along with the Mercedes SLR, as the only production cars fitted with this technology.

The Corvette ZR1’s Ceramic Brake System includes six-piston front and four-piston rear, aluminum, monobloc calipers with a distinctive “Blue Devil” color and Corvette logo, cross-drilled stainless steel radiators, unique semi-metallic friction materials, dedicated pad noise insulators, as well as the cross-drilled CCM rotors {15.5-in (394 mm) fronts and 15-in. (380 mm) rears}.

The benefits of the Ceramic Brake System include significant improvement in performance, reduced weight (rotors weigh 6-7 kg), more resistance to corrosion and the longest rotor life in the industry.

“The past year has been nothing short of remarkable at Brembo,” commented Adrian Smith, general manager of Brembo North America. “With the Harley-Davidson contract and the recent acquisition of Hayes-Lemmerz’ North American plants, the new hi-tech fitments with Corvette and Cadillac are a tremendous opportunity for Brembo to shine in the New Year.”

The basic production of the ceramic composite material is a seven-step process beginning with 1) the mixing of the carbon fibers with the phenol-derived resin. The mixed raw material are 2) hot molded into a “near net shape” and then subjected to 3) pyrolysis before 4) the infiltration of silicon into the compound. The CCM brake discs are then 5) machined using special diamond grinding technology, 6) protected from oxidation, and 7) finally assembly onto the aluminum hat section.

Quite an extensive technical process, but, after all, doesn’t North America’s top-performing production car deserve the finest brakes in the world?

In addition, Brembo High-Performance already produces a complete line of GRAN TURISMO (GT) kits for big brake upgrades of earlier Corvettes, including C5, C6 and the powerful Z06. The GT system’s level of technology and performance in the aftermarket is unrivalled by any other product on the market. By utilizing larger calipers and discs, thermal capacity and brake torque are increased. This potent combination offers the extreme in Brembo’s leading edge technology for high-performance street or track applications.

Brembo, a world leader in engineering, development and production of high-performance braking systems and components, was established in 1961 in Bergamo, Italy.

Brembo is an engineering company with over nine percent of its 5,000 employees dedicated to research, development and innovation. Brembo has 25 plants and offices in 12 countries worldwide. Each product is designed with performance and styling uniquely matched to the vehicle that it equips. Of equal importance is Brembo’s total commitment to manufacturing and quality assurance. Brembo controls every step of the process, from design to iron casting through to assembly, by means of testing and simulations in the laboratory, as well as on the road and track to assure performance.

Brembo offers a comprehensive line of brake components and systems ranging from original equipment and aftermarket replacement parts, to racing and high-performance upgrades, as well as performance motorcycle components and systems.

As a global supplier, Brembo manufactures over 32 million brake rotors a year for more than 30 different OEMs, including Aston Martin, Audi, BMW, Daimler, Chrysler, General Motors, Ford, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Mercedes and Porsche. 2006 sales were $1.012 billion.

prosper

I think this is a good Business Opportunity for some Tuner/Speed Shop,
to produce an "Adaptor Kit"
so the Corvette ZR1 Ceramic Disc can be used for Porsche application.

In fact this could make people adapt the ZR1 full front brake kit to be used for many other car brand application... (not just Porsche)

sws1

I think the price is more driven by margin, and target market for the buyer, rather than the cost to build.

Chevy rotors: $4-5k a set
Porsche: $16k a set
Ferrari: $30k a set

I'm sure if Bugatti sold ceramic rotors, they'd be $75k.

Nizer

Your explanation of the price differential depends on your perspective:

A normal accountant's view: intangible equity
A Porsche accountant's view: god given right
A normal marketer's view: envy
A Porsche marketer's view: job security
A Corvette owner's view: idiots
A Porsche owner's view: I'm an idiot for paying it...but it's really cool...and I can
A market psychologist's view: "brandwashing"
A Porsche psychologist's view: Zis is merely an outverd reflection of ze Id.

cfjan

Last time I heard companies like StopTech were working on aftermarket ceramic rotors, right? Maybe Brembo can get into this market too and make a fitment for Porsche cars..

mikymu

lol

Well said. We are basically suckers for paying so much for PCCB

Brembo already make ceramic brakes for Porsche so we need to some how find ways for them to sell it to the public without going through Porsche

mikymu

That's why I did not bother asking the price of a set of ceramic brakes for scudaria lol

prosper

I think there are some kind of agreements from Porsche with Brembo, that prevent Brembo to supply aftermarket carbon ceramic rotor for Porsche application.
but in exchange, Brembo become the OEM supplier for Porsche Brake.

cfjan

^ I can understand that Brembo's hands might be tied.. (being the OEM) But I think other aftermarket companies should be able to do it. That would be nice!!

RollingArt

Almost.

The Veyron has ceramic rotors. They want $50,000 for a new set.

Here's the good part. They're the EXACT same rotors as found on the Corvette.
Also the same as found on the Enzo and a few others. The price varies greatly depending on which dealership you walk into.



Phil

prosper

Hi Phil,

so do you mean it is the same exact size/shape/mounting,
and made from the same exact material ?

Thanks...

fc-racer

I don't intend on defending Porsche parts prices in any way, but a portion of that additional expense is likely spent on R&D to ensure that ceramic brake rotor works appropriately on the car.

It's easy enough to go to a parts bin, throw some parts on and pass the savings to customers, but it's a totally different situation when you want the brake pedal to be full of feel, for the brake balance to be a certain way and for the cooling to be track worthy, etc, etc. It's kind of like the mac vs. pc thing; the mac is full of the same parts most PC's come with, but the mac has been designed to ensure all the parts work together in a seamless and consistent way.

I think Porsche does some of the most extensive testing on race tracks, etc. of any manufacturer and the cost of this research and development is spread across a smaller volume of cars. This is not a knock against the Corvette, but GM can probably not make a cent on the ZR1 and be fine with that, because it's their halo product.

RollingArt

That's what I'm saying.

The Veyron owner could walk into a Chevy dealer and buy his exact replacement rotors.

Or the Enzo owner. (and other fcars)

How does that make you feel about your exotic car purchase? (sucker?)



Phil

prosper

Phil,
if that reasonably price (cheap) ZR1 carbon brakes are good enough for Enzo and Veyron,

I think it should be good enough for GT3 RS or other Porsche application...

I wish many vendor here read this post,
and ring a bell to them, and see what a big opportunity for them to fabricate
an adapter kit,
so Porsche owner can upgrade to Carbon Ceramic Brake with the Chevy customer friendly price.

NJ-GT

A brand new set of Scuderia rotors runs $16k. The Scuderia and F430C use the same rotors, but the 430C are much cheaper. From the dealer's part bin $30k.

The ZR-1 uses the same rotors all the CCB Ferrari (Brembo). The rear discs from the ZR-1 are used by the F430C, Scuderia, F430, Enzo (front and rear), just different hats depending on the vehicle.

The CCB cost has not come down yet enough, debuted in 2002 in US (Porsche GT2) and 2001 in other markets, 9 years later they are still overpriced.