NJ-GT

I think the 997 GT2 presents a great performance increase over my modified (and gone) 996 GT3. But given the mark-up over an already high price, it brings other cars in the picture.

Considering the needs for a nice street car, around 4 years of ownership, good autocross performance, and good track performance (under 800 track miles per year), I think the Gallardo LP560/4 (lightly modified), the F430 (lightly modified) and the 997 GT3 RS (heavily modified) can run close to the 997 GT2 performance, with the 997 GT2 still having the advantage.

I have a Road&Track magazine where a Viper ACR beats a GT3 RS by 4 seconds at Big Willow. The GT3 RS puts another 4 seconds over the 997S. Even with upgrades (suspension, weight reduction, wheels, etc), the RS can not drop 4 seconds per lap at that track on similar tires.

I have put videos on the Nurburgring side by side from a GT3 RS, F430 Scuderia (Horst Von Saurma), ZR-1 and Nissan GTR. These videos show the perspective of the 20 seconds gap lap time between the ZR-1 and the GT3RS/F430S.

Follow the next the video links. Set the F430 Scuderia video at 0:45, the 997 GT3 RS at 2:50, and the ZR1 video at 0.39 on the big timer. I chose this section, because it is an out of turn leading into a long straight, so driver experience doesn't matter that much if you're shifting at redline and driving flat-out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyEtO...he-nurburgring

http://vodpod.com/watch/355583-video...vs-nurburgring

http://www.garage419.com/episode/419_20080710

The ZR1 and the Viper ACR could be the only street cars within the price range that can actually and most likely beat the 997 GT2 at the track/auto-x. I'm just not a Corvette/Viper fan, they are great cars but they don't produce me emotions as the GT2/F430 do.

- F430 F1: needs Moton and custom springs, F430LP bushings, and 9"/12" wheels with DOT-R tires. This car can get down on weight to 2,950 lbs with no much effort (from the almost 3,400 lbs it weighs with a full tank of gas).

- Gallardo LP560/4: needs suspension work, wheels and tires. I don't know about its weight, but it might be too heavy.

- 997 GT3 RS: 300 lbs removed, shorter gear ratios, ECU tuning, Moton suspension, solid bushings, RSR control arms, monoball upper arms and 18x10 18x13 wheels.

am722

Can you really shave 300 lbs off of an RS without taking away its liveability on the street?

Unless you are really in a hurry I would just wait out the GT2 markups. But I don't like Lambos or F-cars, so I'm biased. If I had to choose between them, though, I would go for the 560. Newer technology, Audi involvement, etc.

C.J. Ichiban

I really like the way the 560 looks, but don't think you (as a lightweight guy) will like the softer nature of the car, my teammate has had 2 gallardos and he likes them because they're "more comfortable on the freeway" than porsches. it's more of a touring car.

how about deleting the FWD out of an R8? lol

I like the 430 a lot. I also really love the RS (obviously). you should be able to find an rs for 10-20k over msrp, maybe lower depending on the seller.

Targa Tim

Looks, weights and brand name aside, the GT-R V spec may have a chance to run with the GT2 in its stock form.

997gt3north

How about put 20Gs into a 60 grand 996tt

Total cost would be 80 to 85

Call Tony at EPL and install some of his new hybrid turbos with very fast spool up plus he can very easily make you a track file that limits the initial boost spike for trackability and yet would still get you over 500whp


Make it 2wdr all the suspension stuff with some big front rubber and should be able to get it down to 3000 pounds


or

Make yourself a 300hp lotus exige

or


Buy a 100g 996gt2 and chip it. (this would be my choice)

cgomez

Rad,

I drove a 6 GT3RS at the Ring with a similar setup except the bigger wheel treatment, so it felt performance wise right in the middle between an RS and a Cup car. It might/can be as fast as a GT2 on tight tracks, and for autox definitively faster due to the BIG tires and much lower weight.

The main advantage of the GT2 (IMO with 1 week experience!) is the amazing acceleration, specially at high speed (100mph+), and the incredible composure to put all that power down (Easy and predictable to progressively feed 100% throttle on corner exit).

My take on all your options, assuming all is possible, is to go with with a LP560 and remove the front wheel drive!!! I would never pick an AWD as a true supercar for real drivers; just not as much fun IMO....

I don't see you can mod an F430 to match the GT2 as neither the 430S can.

Jon70

The Spec V will be faster than the GT2.

NJ-GT

Exactlly, the GT3 you drove at the Nurburgring had all the upgrades I had in my car, other than the 10"/12" wheels with wider tires. I know how fast is a modified 996 GT3, on that level of performance, few stock street cars can match it.

I don't think that the LP560 and F430 with the $20k on upgrades can still touch the 997 GT2 (stock), but I like the idea of trying something different.

I'm very interested in reading your in-depth feedback on the 997 GT2, as you have driven my car, a similar car at the Ring with super fast lap times, and the 997 Carrera S, and the 360 Modena at the Ring, and your lousy Lotus Exige S.

By the way, 340Elise and mooty have me sold on the Exige 240S, but the Exige should replace my 335i, no way that it would replace my sadly gone 996 GT3.

AudiOn19s

Maybe the LP560 is different, but the standard Gallardo's seem to be very fragile and I'd be hesitant to beleive they'd stand up to constant abuse of agressive driving, auto-x and tracking on a regular basis. A good friend of mine is on his third car and while he loves them he's the first to admit that it's in the shop more than it's on the road.

mooty

rad, bite the bullet, get the GT2. you are p nut.

Yargk

I agree get the 2. From your history with your 3 and the way you describe other options, I believe you can setup any car. However, setting up an F or L car might be more frustrating than rewarding. For the GT2 the path is a fun and actually quite clear one when you are focused on track performance. It seems with a lighter 2 and a better setup one (RSR parts, motons, etc), the 2 should be untouchable.

BTW if you get a 2, have you considered aero work like getting canards for the front and a Cup wing in the rear? (you'll have to figure out the side intakes or figure out how to attach the cup wing to the stock decklid). The reason I ask is that you seem to want the best performance option and clearly (look at any FIA GT3 car) aero = performance. The ACR has super aero for a street car so now why can't the 2?

C.J. Ichiban

what about a lotus 2-eleven?

eclou

I'd wait for the upcoming Toyota LFA, or the V10 R8. You might also consider going for a 997tt and doing the Champion package that Pete Stout is still raving about

340Elise

Yes, yes, yes!!! What C.J. said! yeah!!!



And yes you can remove 300 lbs from an RS and still make it liveable. I have removed about 200 from my GT3 and that is without a light weight battery and some "real" light wheit wheels. The full carpeting is still in the car including the trunk. BUT, I don't have a passenger seat. That would add 24 or 26 more lbs.

How about this for a GT2 competitor in a GT3:

I can get my GT3 down to 2,900 lbs for sure, and 2,850 is not out of the question with it being very liveable. Now you take the car over to Alex at Sharkwerks and have him do a 3.8 or 3.9 conversion. A 3.9 on a race gas map should yield close to 500 hp based on his 3.8 conversion that he ran on pump gas. But let's say 480 hp to be on the safe side. Take 2,850 and divide it by 480 and you get.....5.9375 lbs per hp, which is just a tad better than a bone stock GT2 without any options.

I realize that the torque characteristics of the GT2 will make it faster in some areas, but the car is reported to be a handful and it DOES have turbo lag with the approx 20 psi max boost that it is running.

I would rather still have an NA GT3 anyday with a little larger displacement motor (the 3.8 with 360 hp is also fine) and even stronger internals and a weight of 2,850 lbs. You could also go with something like the GMG WC GT3 package to make the car something really special. Motons, Brembo GTR's with 8-piston titanium cailipers, BBS E88's with 265 front and 325 rear with larger CF front fenders (also helps with weight). And all the other fancy suspension bits that they use on their WC car.

That is what I would do; and might just do if I keep my GT3.

allegretto

going thru the same thing here. close to a gt2 but just wondering where i'll use all the HP. I can track as much as one would want, but gt2...on the track...going for it?

a gt3 would be better suited to true dual purpose. if i go with a 2 i know it will be more of a queen than a 3.

been over the list of alternatives over and over. if you wnat a dual purpose car, and i've tried several, the 2 or 3 is about the most sense. anything else and you're either putting up with huge costs to run or you're going slower.