Things I'd Change on the GT3 if I was Porsche
05-06-2008, 05:34 PM
#31
Nordschleife Master
2,800 pounds
jrz or motons
They do seem to have lost focus on the 911. With the SUV sales and the Sedan it looks like that it where to work is being done.
They are going to have their hands more than full in road racing. The new M3, C6 corvette and others coming in can have Porsche as the third place team.
jrz or motons
They do seem to have lost focus on the 911. With the SUV sales and the Sedan it looks like that it where to work is being done.
They are going to have their hands more than full in road racing. The new M3, C6 corvette and others coming in can have Porsche as the third place team.
05-06-2008, 06:04 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Oh, that's not fair. There hasn't been a street 911 that weighed 2,800lbs in 20 years. Nor are there any street cars out there with remote reservoir shocks. The 911 has always been a sports/GT car, and still very much is.
They do need to keep it to the current 3,000-3,200lb range, however, or it will slide down that slippery slope and end up like the portly M3.
They do need to keep it to the current 3,000-3,200lb range, however, or it will slide down that slippery slope and end up like the portly M3.
05-06-2008, 07:33 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
had mine close to year with almost 8000 mi and 6 track days. basically perfect but since you asked...
defeatable esp as on the new gt2
3rd psam setting for pothole roads
satellite radio
single louder muffler setting
now if you want to get crazy...
carbon fiber body parts to loose another 200 lbs
direct injection for another 50 hp/75 ftl bs
dual clutch paddles
defeatable esp as on the new gt2
3rd psam setting for pothole roads
satellite radio
single louder muffler setting
now if you want to get crazy...
carbon fiber body parts to loose another 200 lbs
direct injection for another 50 hp/75 ftl bs
dual clutch paddles
05-06-2008, 07:44 PM
#34
05-06-2008, 08:15 PM
#35
- not exactly sure what you mean as when you hit the TC button, you are 100% on your own?
- moreover, even without hitting the TC botton or the sport button, you can have the tail 15% out and you will not see TC in action - never mind it will absolutely not save you even if it is ON
- moreover, even without hitting the TC botton or the sport button, you can have the tail 15% out and you will not see TC in action - never mind it will absolutely not save you even if it is ON
05-06-2008, 09:47 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
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Yes, he wants a Cup car that is street legal. What's wrong with that? And why doesn't Porsche make one?
I know why. All the posers will instantly buy one and then bitch that it's too rough and the radio sucks as it only can pick up the signal from the pits.
Not all of us enjoy towing the car every single time. I like to tow to events but for some strange reason I don't like to tow the car if it needs a damn oil change.
I know why. All the posers will instantly buy one and then bitch that it's too rough and the radio sucks as it only can pick up the signal from the pits.
Not all of us enjoy towing the car every single time. I like to tow to events but for some strange reason I don't like to tow the car if it needs a damn oil change.
05-06-2008, 11:30 PM
#37
Banned
My list is pretty short.
1. Sunroof delete. Since the day I got the car, the sunroof's inside liner will rattle or buzz every now & then while going down the highway. Opening & closing it does make the buzzing go away for a bit. A minor annoyance, but not worth tearing the car apart to try & fix.
1. Sunroof delete. Since the day I got the car, the sunroof's inside liner will rattle or buzz every now & then while going down the highway. Opening & closing it does make the buzzing go away for a bit. A minor annoyance, but not worth tearing the car apart to try & fix.
My 2005 997 sunroof also started to rattle and had to be repaired. So on my GT3 I have not opened it and I pulled the fuse so no one else can open it. So far it is solid as a rock.
05-06-2008, 11:49 PM
#38
Banned
05-07-2008, 12:04 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
And that is what is so compelling about the Lotus.... I would really like to see Porsche pushing the envelope with the "GT" class of street cars for our "type" of enthusiast.
If it weren't for my freakishly-long torso, I'd have that Exige S on order right now.
My $0.02,
-Blake
If it weren't for my freakishly-long torso, I'd have that Exige S on order right now.
My $0.02,
-Blake
05-07-2008, 01:30 AM
#41
Banned
What is wrong with the motor? It is a good motor and very reliable. If you are worried about oil starvation in high G track driving, then you have a few solutions. a baffled oil pan from Forcedfed or Moroso along with an Accusump oil accumulator will take care of that in most cases. But if you really need a more hard core solution for oil starvation issues, then the DMC oil pump from Forcedfed should solve all of your wows.
The low boost supercharged versions provide plenty of power because of the light weight of the car, and a turbo version with a stand alone ECU is also available from a moderate 275 to 300 hp on race fuel; or do what I did and go with the built bottom end with the lower 8.5.8.0 cr and a very safe 306 whp and 220 or 240 w torque on a race gas pump mix. This is with a maximum of 15 psi after 2nd gear, but in a built motor that could take as much as 30 psi. The stock tranny also never had a problem with 300 whp since that is what it is rated up to.
However, I the Honda k20 (is that correct?) would be even better, and there are a few shops who do that conversion. They are getting well over 240 hp with natural aspiration, and well over 300 with a supercharger.
I plan on buying another Lotus as soon as I can afford to without selling my GT3, and I am looking very hard at a used 2005 NA model. Then I woudl upgrade to a set of Ohlins with remote reservoirs, some RAC Monolite wheels with a 7 x 16" front weighing just 11.5 lbs and a 8 x 17 rear coming in just under 13 lbs. Then put on the Toyo R888's. AS for the brakes, they are just fine in stock form because the car is so darn light, but to make sure they can keep up with the SC kit that I would be buying, I would go with an AP Racing front big brake kit and just some lighter floating rotors with alum hats in the rear losing another 6 lbs of unsprong rotational mass in the rear.
Finally, a Sector 111 Katana/Ronin SC kit with a real ECU reflash solution finally, or a BWR SC kit with another reflash solution. These kits go for about $5K with the reflash, and can be installed by yourself at a difficulty rating of 3.5 out of 5.
Then you can go with some different intakes and exhausts and get a custom tune for those along with race gas to hit the 300 hp mark no problem at about 8 to 8.5 lbs of boost. Knock off another 150 lbs of weight (easy on these cars believe it or not) and you are flirting with 1800 to 1850 lbs of total weight and a power to weight ratio of around 6.0 lbs per hp and still under 7.0 lbs with the driver.
I'd like to see you get that pimple off of your GT3!
The low boost supercharged versions provide plenty of power because of the light weight of the car, and a turbo version with a stand alone ECU is also available from a moderate 275 to 300 hp on race fuel; or do what I did and go with the built bottom end with the lower 8.5.8.0 cr and a very safe 306 whp and 220 or 240 w torque on a race gas pump mix. This is with a maximum of 15 psi after 2nd gear, but in a built motor that could take as much as 30 psi. The stock tranny also never had a problem with 300 whp since that is what it is rated up to.
However, I the Honda k20 (is that correct?) would be even better, and there are a few shops who do that conversion. They are getting well over 240 hp with natural aspiration, and well over 300 with a supercharger.
I plan on buying another Lotus as soon as I can afford to without selling my GT3, and I am looking very hard at a used 2005 NA model. Then I woudl upgrade to a set of Ohlins with remote reservoirs, some RAC Monolite wheels with a 7 x 16" front weighing just 11.5 lbs and a 8 x 17 rear coming in just under 13 lbs. Then put on the Toyo R888's. AS for the brakes, they are just fine in stock form because the car is so darn light, but to make sure they can keep up with the SC kit that I would be buying, I would go with an AP Racing front big brake kit and just some lighter floating rotors with alum hats in the rear losing another 6 lbs of unsprong rotational mass in the rear.
Finally, a Sector 111 Katana/Ronin SC kit with a real ECU reflash solution finally, or a BWR SC kit with another reflash solution. These kits go for about $5K with the reflash, and can be installed by yourself at a difficulty rating of 3.5 out of 5.
Then you can go with some different intakes and exhausts and get a custom tune for those along with race gas to hit the 300 hp mark no problem at about 8 to 8.5 lbs of boost. Knock off another 150 lbs of weight (easy on these cars believe it or not) and you are flirting with 1800 to 1850 lbs of total weight and a power to weight ratio of around 6.0 lbs per hp and still under 7.0 lbs with the driver.
I'd like to see you get that pimple off of your GT3!
05-07-2008, 02:59 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Build it. It seems like a very interesting project. I'm curious as to why there aren't more cars like that running around since it seems like a logical setup. Maybe the light lotus is so fun, people aren't trying to use it to beat up on everything else on the track? With 300 hp, you're looking at a power to weight ratio that's good enough to run with very fast cars. Lightness is going to help you on consumables, but from a physics standpoint, heavier cars should be able to make up with super wide tires and huge brakes to at least partially negate the direct benefits of lightness on braking and handling. However, where it seems like you'd really get them is aero. If you get the Reverie aero bits for like 300+ pounds of downforce at 100 mph, then at 100 mph your corning grip will be increased by aero effects by 15+% (divide by car weight). A stock 997 GT3 RS has probably less than 100 pounds of downforce at 100 mph. I'm not sure what's possible if you do the Cup S aero on it, but in order to get the same benefit as the lotus it would have to produce about 500 pounds of downforce at 100 mph. The point is, with comparable tires and suspension, nothing is going to keep up in the turns without comparable aero which is harder to do with greater weight.
Last edited by Yargk; 05-07-2008 at 03:24 AM.
05-07-2008, 04:35 AM
#43
Platinum Dealership
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hmmm stephen that sounds like an interesting vehicle...what's the displacement they have to run to get the higher HP readings? I want to run the 25 hours of thunderhill next year and I can already feel myself begging for more power than the MX-5 cup car...although it would be the cheapest way for me and 2 co-drivers to race.
05-07-2008, 07:37 AM
#44
Banned
Build it. It seems like a very interesting project. I'm curious as to why there aren't more cars like that running around since it seems like a logical setup. Maybe the light lotus is so fun, people aren't trying to use it to beat up on everything else on the track? With 300 hp, you're looking at a power to weight ratio that's good enough to run with very fast cars. Lightness is going to help you on consumables, but from a physics standpoint, heavier cars should be able to make up with super wide tires and huge brakes to at least partially negate the direct benefits of lightness on braking and handling. However, where it seems like you'd really get them is aero. If you get the Reverie aero bits for like 300+ pounds of downforce at 100 mph, then at 100 mph your corning grip will be increased by aero effects by 15+% (divide by car weight). A stock 997 GT3 RS has probably less than 100 pounds of downforce at 100 mph. I'm not sure what's possible if you do the Cup S aero on it, but in order to get the same benefit as the lotus it would have to produce about 500 pounds of downforce at 100 mph. The point is, with comparable tires and suspension, nothing is going to keep up in the turns without comparable aero which is harder to do with greater weight.
hmmm stephen that sounds like an interesting vehicle...what's the displacement they have to run to get the higher HP readings? I want to run the 25 hours of thunderhill next year and I can already feel myself begging for more power than the MX-5 cup car...although it would be the cheapest way for me and 2 co-drivers to race.
I give up. Sorry guys, I just had two long replies and lost everything. I keep hitting some keys on my Dell keyboard that wipes out what I typed and I can't undo it.
Have either of you read my signature line, specifically my past cars?
I will go into more details tomorrow, but Forcedfed (my favorite aftermarket tuner in the US) got just a little over 380 whp out of the Toyota 2zz motor by only rebuilding the bottom end with stronger internals, but not changing the displacement. Naturally the lower the compression ratio from the stock 11.5.
That is too much power for an Elise. My Race 340 kit with the same built motor, but a smaller turbo than for their 380 kit; mine had a GT28RS Garrett "disco potato" turbo, put out 306 whp on race gas and about 260 whp on my mixed 93 to 95 octane gas. The 3006 whp mode was too much for the car in my opinion, and the 260 whp or about 300 crank hp map was just perfect. It was an amazing set up and I used it as a daily driver and never had problems to where I had to be towed, or even stuck somewhere for a few minutes.
OK, I'm out, going home. Time for bed.
Stephen
I will be dreaming of my new orange RS
05-07-2008, 11:14 AM
#45
Race Car
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Stephen,
As a toy that sees street use, the Loti, to me, are a let down b/c of the motor. Brilliant chassis (in fact I think the steering feel crushes every pcar I've owned), but the motor sounds/feels like crap. Going through the rev range is about as appealing as nails on a chalkboard. Words such as rough and harsh come to mind. (Secondarily, the build quality and shifter and clutch feel are a letdown, coming from a bunch of porsches)
On track, once you strap on all the necessary stuff to make it durable, I'm sure it's fine. Helmet on, popping off the rev limiter on a weekend track day, the harshness of the motor probably won't be felt.
I have no issues with the power. It makes a lot for the car's weight. However, I prefer NA for the track, for quicker, more intuitive throttle response and for general reliability as there is so much less heat to deal with and far fewer failure points to deal with. Many FI cars down here in TX, including factory FI cars suffer from massive heat soak and attendant power loss. Just not an ideal solution for power IMO.
You hit the nail on the head about the Honda motor. Those are a gem. I had an S2000 and that motor as well as the souped up JDM? motors the kids put in the civics/integras are awesome. Very transparent, intuitive, tough as nails, and they sound great! I remember reading that Lotus approached Honda several times for their motors, but there was no deal. Surely they felt the S2000 would be compromised. Too bad.
I actually prefer the original Elise, and especially those in the US with those Honda motor conversions. Hot cars.
I was on the LONG wait list for the original Elise. I was excited and fully 'bought-in' to the concept. Then the cars started arriving and I just couldn't come to grips with the motor and gave up my spot.
As a toy that sees street use, the Loti, to me, are a let down b/c of the motor. Brilliant chassis (in fact I think the steering feel crushes every pcar I've owned), but the motor sounds/feels like crap. Going through the rev range is about as appealing as nails on a chalkboard. Words such as rough and harsh come to mind. (Secondarily, the build quality and shifter and clutch feel are a letdown, coming from a bunch of porsches)
On track, once you strap on all the necessary stuff to make it durable, I'm sure it's fine. Helmet on, popping off the rev limiter on a weekend track day, the harshness of the motor probably won't be felt.
I have no issues with the power. It makes a lot for the car's weight. However, I prefer NA for the track, for quicker, more intuitive throttle response and for general reliability as there is so much less heat to deal with and far fewer failure points to deal with. Many FI cars down here in TX, including factory FI cars suffer from massive heat soak and attendant power loss. Just not an ideal solution for power IMO.
You hit the nail on the head about the Honda motor. Those are a gem. I had an S2000 and that motor as well as the souped up JDM? motors the kids put in the civics/integras are awesome. Very transparent, intuitive, tough as nails, and they sound great! I remember reading that Lotus approached Honda several times for their motors, but there was no deal. Surely they felt the S2000 would be compromised. Too bad.
I actually prefer the original Elise, and especially those in the US with those Honda motor conversions. Hot cars.
I was on the LONG wait list for the original Elise. I was excited and fully 'bought-in' to the concept. Then the cars started arriving and I just couldn't come to grips with the motor and gave up my spot.