Things I'd Change on the GT3 if I was Porsche
05-07-2008 | 01:40 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,310
Likes: 306
From: Los Angeles
OK, you got me. ONE car sold in this country has the OPTION of some cheap remote reservoir shocks on the front axle. I haven't kept up with my Lotus option packages as of late; I thought this went away with the limited edition Elise a couple years ago.
Regardless, I don't consider it comparable to the full race suspension suggested by roberga in the post I originally responded to.
Regardless, I don't consider it comparable to the full race suspension suggested by roberga in the post I originally responded to.
05-07-2008 | 10:54 PM
#47
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Jackson, MS USA
I respect your opinions Dan, but every item you list is beyond my comprehension of why you would want to do that to the GT3. Seriously, as a few have said already, the turbo is the car for you, and you sould not take that as an insult. The turbo is a bad @ss car, and it addresses most of your issues.
Here is what I want and I'm working on (unless I get someones RS soon):
Light weight 996 GT3 CLOTH seats on the way (I don't like leather and the cloth ones are actually 2 lbs lighter each). I will probably just put in the drivers side seat and get the passenger side seat up for fairly quick installs if I must take someone with me.
I will also add the 11.5 lb Braille battery within the next couple of weeks and have a good trickle charger to go with it.
I want to switch to one of the 340 mm Daytona Race GT steering wheels which are thicker (you would like that) and still have plenty of alcantara. I loved the 320 in my Elise, but that would be too small for the GT3. But the current 370 is a bit of a school bus steering wheel to me.
I have never used the radio and don't plan on it. I think I will rip out the speakers at the very least.
I am considering gutting the interior to some degree, even for street use just so I can get this fat *** car to lose some weight.
Mr. John Carey, my new hero; who basically built a cup car out of a base (no option white GT3) ordered the motorsport roof so as to get rid of the sunroof, I am highly considering this; but an RS would take care of that.
To me, even cruise control is to fancy for an option, but I am glad that the GT3 is fairly low in the useless fluff dept.
I hate any kind of technology that does nothing for the performance of the car and just complicates things (more things to break) and that adds weight.
One such example is the bi-xenon headlights. I specifically did not order them and never will. Porsche makes you get those idiotic washer nozzles with them that 98% of Porsche owners don't even know how to use. Then they need to be constantly self leveling so as not to blind on-coming traffic. That adds complexity, little motors to break, and weight. I got the base halogens and just put in the Sylvania "made in Germany" silver star white lights and they work just fine; very well actually, and they are so simple.
The PASM suspension goes against my beliefs of simple and less weight, but I admit it is not a bad feature. HOWEVER, I am perfectly happy driving on either setting, but keep it on the base setting for 95% of driving (including spirited) because it is better on rough roads when you start hitting the twisties hard. I will upgrade to some Motons, JRZ, or maybe Ohlins if those are recommendi
ed.
The 997 GT3 is plenty soft as is the RS version. Just like Mooty wrote in one of the threads, it makes for a great street car.
I want to get the weight below 2,900 lbs for sure, but would love to get closer to 2,750 if at all possible. And then switch to a regular track suspension that can be adjusted for ride height and compression and dampning. This would allow me to adjust the ride height for street use and even soften it up just a bit. But it woudl also me a simplier and lighter system.
I would love to switch the doors to carbon/kevlar and maybe eventhe roof. The fenders and trunk in CF/K would be nice,but I don't wantt lighten up the front too much.
Then later some Brembo 380 mm 2 piece brake rotors with thealum hat and aluminum calipers to cut backon more weight.
Finally, the Cup S exhaust or something similar would be nice to get rid of some of that weight in the rear.
Please don't ask from Porsche what they already have and let us enjoy our GT3's which are unbelievable cars, but could be made much lighter and hard-core while still being streetable. Please don't make it even worse and before you know it our GT3's will weigh as much as a GTR and therefore require those 580 hp to move that boat, but with way too much artifical feeling technology that just drives the car for you perfectly regardless of your skill level.
I love my GT3, god knows I do, but it is still a fat, wobally marshmellow compared to what it cld be.
Here is what I want and I'm working on (unless I get someones RS soon):
Light weight 996 GT3 CLOTH seats on the way (I don't like leather and the cloth ones are actually 2 lbs lighter each). I will probably just put in the drivers side seat and get the passenger side seat up for fairly quick installs if I must take someone with me.
I will also add the 11.5 lb Braille battery within the next couple of weeks and have a good trickle charger to go with it.
I want to switch to one of the 340 mm Daytona Race GT steering wheels which are thicker (you would like that) and still have plenty of alcantara. I loved the 320 in my Elise, but that would be too small for the GT3. But the current 370 is a bit of a school bus steering wheel to me.
I have never used the radio and don't plan on it. I think I will rip out the speakers at the very least.
I am considering gutting the interior to some degree, even for street use just so I can get this fat *** car to lose some weight.
Mr. John Carey, my new hero; who basically built a cup car out of a base (no option white GT3) ordered the motorsport roof so as to get rid of the sunroof, I am highly considering this; but an RS would take care of that.
To me, even cruise control is to fancy for an option, but I am glad that the GT3 is fairly low in the useless fluff dept.
I hate any kind of technology that does nothing for the performance of the car and just complicates things (more things to break) and that adds weight.
One such example is the bi-xenon headlights. I specifically did not order them and never will. Porsche makes you get those idiotic washer nozzles with them that 98% of Porsche owners don't even know how to use. Then they need to be constantly self leveling so as not to blind on-coming traffic. That adds complexity, little motors to break, and weight. I got the base halogens and just put in the Sylvania "made in Germany" silver star white lights and they work just fine; very well actually, and they are so simple.
The PASM suspension goes against my beliefs of simple and less weight, but I admit it is not a bad feature. HOWEVER, I am perfectly happy driving on either setting, but keep it on the base setting for 95% of driving (including spirited) because it is better on rough roads when you start hitting the twisties hard. I will upgrade to some Motons, JRZ, or maybe Ohlins if those are recommendi
ed.
The 997 GT3 is plenty soft as is the RS version. Just like Mooty wrote in one of the threads, it makes for a great street car.
I want to get the weight below 2,900 lbs for sure, but would love to get closer to 2,750 if at all possible. And then switch to a regular track suspension that can be adjusted for ride height and compression and dampning. This would allow me to adjust the ride height for street use and even soften it up just a bit. But it woudl also me a simplier and lighter system.
I would love to switch the doors to carbon/kevlar and maybe eventhe roof. The fenders and trunk in CF/K would be nice,but I don't wantt lighten up the front too much.
Then later some Brembo 380 mm 2 piece brake rotors with thealum hat and aluminum calipers to cut backon more weight.
Finally, the Cup S exhaust or something similar would be nice to get rid of some of that weight in the rear.
Please don't ask from Porsche what they already have and let us enjoy our GT3's which are unbelievable cars, but could be made much lighter and hard-core while still being streetable. Please don't make it even worse and before you know it our GT3's will weigh as much as a GTR and therefore require those 580 hp to move that boat, but with way too much artifical feeling technology that just drives the car for you perfectly regardless of your skill level.
I love my GT3, god knows I do, but it is still a fat, wobally marshmellow compared to what it cld be.
Dan
05-07-2008 | 11:03 PM
#48
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Jackson, MS USA
Dan
05-08-2008 | 04:16 AM
#49
Platinum Dealership
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 9,889
Likes: 2,526
From: Exit Row seats
fwiw it's getting really hard to take weight off because of the increasing "safety measures" that manufacturers have to uphold now...side curtain airbags, traction control systems, etc are the "impact bumpers" of this generation. combining these with increased "chassis rigidity" aka more metal for more strength are why cars weight 20-50% more than the 911s of back in the day.
so, as nice as low weight is, when you've got a relatively high-roofed car that is extremely safe in impacts AND with tons of head and legroom for the driver/passenger...it's gonna be a heavier car.
it's inevitable.
so, as nice as low weight is, when you've got a relatively high-roofed car that is extremely safe in impacts AND with tons of head and legroom for the driver/passenger...it's gonna be a heavier car.
it's inevitable.
05-08-2008 | 11:37 AM
#50
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,852
Likes: 3
From: Long Island, NY
1. The seats are a bit firm. Maybe add just a touch more padding.
2. The steering wheel is to firm and too thin. Make it thicker and add more padding.
3. Take a bit of spring out of the front end. Like most 911's it "hunts" a bit over bumps since it is so stiff and there is so little weight up there.
4. Devise some simple system to allow the front end to be raised so it can clear driveways and such (like the Lambo system).
5. Put some of the controls (maybe the climate control, or radio, or cruise) on the steering wheel.
6. Do something about the lousy sound system.
Dan Blumenthal
2. The steering wheel is to firm and too thin. Make it thicker and add more padding.
3. Take a bit of spring out of the front end. Like most 911's it "hunts" a bit over bumps since it is so stiff and there is so little weight up there.
4. Devise some simple system to allow the front end to be raised so it can clear driveways and such (like the Lambo system).
5. Put some of the controls (maybe the climate control, or radio, or cruise) on the steering wheel.
6. Do something about the lousy sound system.
Dan Blumenthal
buy a Turbo, Dan.....your problem is solved....leave the Gt3's to those who appreciate them as is...
05-08-2008 | 01:21 PM
#51
Pro
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 566
Likes: 1
From: Kuwait
1. The seats are a bit firm. Maybe add just a touch more padding.
2. The steering wheel is to firm and too thin. Make it thicker and add more padding.
3. Take a bit of spring out of the front end. Like most 911's it "hunts" a bit over bumps since it is so stiff and there is so little weight up there.
4. Devise some simple system to allow the front end to be raised so it can clear driveways and such (like the Lambo system).
5. Put some of the controls (maybe the climate control, or radio, or cruise) on the steering wheel.
6. Do something about the lousy sound system.
Dan Blumenthal
2. The steering wheel is to firm and too thin. Make it thicker and add more padding.
3. Take a bit of spring out of the front end. Like most 911's it "hunts" a bit over bumps since it is so stiff and there is so little weight up there.
4. Devise some simple system to allow the front end to be raised so it can clear driveways and such (like the Lambo system).
5. Put some of the controls (maybe the climate control, or radio, or cruise) on the steering wheel.
6. Do something about the lousy sound system.
Dan Blumenthal
05-09-2008 | 10:28 AM
#52
Banned
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,176
Likes: 2
From: Albuquerque, NM
Stephen,
As a toy that sees street use, the Loti, to me, are a let down b/c of the motor. Brilliant chassis (in fact I think the steering feel crushes every pcar I've owned), but the motor sounds/feels like crap. Going through the rev range is about as appealing as nails on a chalkboard. Words such as rough and harsh come to mind. (Secondarily, the build quality and shifter and clutch feel are a letdown, coming from a bunch of porsches)
As a toy that sees street use, the Loti, to me, are a let down b/c of the motor. Brilliant chassis (in fact I think the steering feel crushes every pcar I've owned), but the motor sounds/feels like crap. Going through the rev range is about as appealing as nails on a chalkboard. Words such as rough and harsh come to mind. (Secondarily, the build quality and shifter and clutch feel are a letdown, coming from a bunch of porsches)
But there are so many excellent aftermarket exhuast choices for that car that will make it sound unbelievable. You can get an excellent cat back rear panel exit exhaust for as little as $500.00, while the expensive ones go for $1,000.00.
But OMG, if you get the right one, the car sounds unbelievable, and nothing like a rice rocket fart can either.
Trust me, I have done lot of work with these cars, and on my Exige S alone, which I only had for about 5 months, I purchased and tested at least 5 different aftermarket exhausts and also sport cats and de-cats.
One of the things that I miss about my Elise and Exige S is the sound of the motor. Now the GT3 motor sounds awesome, and even better with a Sharkwerks as a simple exhuast upgrade, but it does not even come close to the soundof my Lotus car with the best exhaust that I ever tested. They sounded so good and added so much to the race car like feeling.
I realize it is not the best motor out there, but Lotus got it at a good price and it is a damn fine motor; certainly better than any of the rovor crap motors that used to go into the S1's in the non Federal cars. It is also much improved because Lotus how as a variabe cam change point and it makes that much smoother and brings it on the second cam at a lowerandmore useable rpm.
There are better motors in the world, but not for the money and reliablity.
And speaking of realiability and build quality. Sure, every damn Lotus is different because they are still hand built, and the don't have the best paint or quality control. The panels are also fiberglass and don't fit perfectly.
But these cars are solid, simple, and reliable as can be. I was just talking to salesman at our local Lotus dealer and we were talking as friends (because we are). He knows I know these cars much better than him. and that he can't teach me anything. He also does not need to convince me that these cars are unbelieveable, and he knows I will be buying another one from him soon. But he was telling me that besides the 1,000 mile breakin service and other general services for oil changes or other mileage mark services, he never sees these cars comein for repairs. They are simple and have an excellent engine and tranny. I never had a problem in almost 3 years of ownership either.
You have to remember that in order to keep these cars so light weight, that they are not going to drive like bank vaults; it doesn't work that way. This is why I hate mercedes cars so much (because weight is the enemy), but they are solidand feel olid.
As for the tranny. It was a good idea since it is the tranny used with the motor. Toyota engineered them to work togther so why not use that part and not reinvent it. I admit, the tranny is a bit imprecise, and is not the snickity snack unit used in the S2000. But it is not bad, and got better starting with the late 2005 models. There is even a DIY that turned into a kit that you can buy from Sector111 to add another attachment point for the shifter to strengten it and take out a lot of the slop. It is also engineered to handle about 300 to 320 hp and it felt like it.
The Federal Elise is a great car that has become an even better car since 2005 and makes for a damn fine street (if you are not a wuss) car and evenbetter tradk car.
I will be buying another one sooner than later and will either do a leftover 2007 Exige S, or a good used 200 Elise and one of the two excellent super-charger kits currently on the market and install it myself.
If you dropped off to buy one of these cars because of the motor, I think you are making a huge mistake. You really don't know what you are missing.
05-10-2008 | 10:09 AM
#53
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 400
Likes: 4
From: Montreal
05-10-2008 | 10:11 AM
#54
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 400
Likes: 4
From: Montreal
