Cupcar

Yep.

///Mous3

Oh my... imagine the mid-engine 550 RS with the engine from the current RS Spyder....

That is so possible with these days when car makers are going retro.

C.J. Ichiban

oh yeah great idea they could call it the Spyder S.R.- suicide rocket. kinda along the same lines as the viper engined motorcycle jay leno had at the autoshow a few years ago.

Cupcar

The funny thing is that, since the GT3 engine has heritage going back to the 356, and uses the same mating pattern between engine and gearbox, one could actually bolt a GT3 engine to a 1953 550 Spyder's gearbox without modifications!!!

But, since the Cayman gearbox uses a completely different bolt pattern, the GT3 engine can NOT be bolted directly to the Cayman gearbox. Hence easy conversions by RUF and others have been thwarted.

lawjdc

Piece of cake . . . Porsche should build a 6 or 8 cylinder variant of the CGT motor, shrink the CGT chassis and body to fit (they have done all of the engineering already), build the car out of aluminum instead of carbon fiber, and sell all they can make. Sort of a mini-CGT.

Unfortunately the marketing department would have a fit, as the resulting M-CGT would easily trump the 911, causing profit uncertainty.

arenared

But, if they price it higher than the 911, the bean counters would still be happy
Also, if they made it not so luxurious--maybe without a sunroof, let's say--and a little cramped without space for kids and golf clubs--maybe even without leather (Alcantara) and no climate control, maybe those folks would still opt for the "full" luxury Porsche experience.

mooty

cant afford CGT with the mileage i log.

ruf GT3 engined car is more than 150. i asked. so is farn bacher's car. both will do 3.8L wet sump cars at 100-120k depending on your options. both said GT3 drive train is a tough fit (i think they meant mechanically and electronically, not size wise) and to do it, it's significantly more than 3.8L cars.

cupcar, i think when i spoke with ruf texas, reading b/n the line is that they can stuff ANY motor in anycar, as long as i got enough money to burn ;-)

as far a exclusivity, i want a car that uses a mass produced engine and parts that is fast, reliable and cheap to replace. exclusivity does me no good. i break things a lot. i need replacement parts. and waiting more than 5 min for anything, generally pisses me off. damn, no wonder i am pissed off 23 hours of each day.

Cupcar

Thinking that RUF, using OEM Porsche suppliers, has made special castings for Porsche gearbox conversions in the past, such as their 5 speed conversion package for the early 4 speed 911 Turbo cars, I inquired about them doing a GT3 type gearbox for the Cayman. They said this "was not possible" without further explanation. I think it is because the shift rails intrude into the ring gear case, making it more difficult.

Historically the gearboxes used in the '65 to '86 cars (the 901 and 915 type) were designed for mid-engine use (variants of the 901 gearbox used in the 904,906,910 and 914/6 mid-engine cars) such that the ring gear can be flipped to the opposite side of the gearbox and a shifter mechanism adapted.

Have any of you have looked at the bottom of the '72 on 915 gearbox and noted the funny plate that holds the shift rail guide and wondered why it was so big? Well, it was because Porsche designed a shifter that fit in that place for use during the evolution of the 914/6, before that model car was canceled. The "916" car model, of which only 20 were made, had this gearbox.

There were other internal casting changes that persisted for the entire 915 production run of the gearbox as history of a mid-engine melt down at Porsche.

CP

Cupcar,

When you spoke with Ruf re them doing a GT3 type gearbox for the Cayman and they said this "was not possible", I assumed you were talking to Ruf Dallas.

If Ruf Dallas are indeed the ones saying it, I'm not surprised, as they by themself probably would not have the technical and financial resources to make that happen. However, if one talks to Ruf in Pfaffenhausen, one may well get a different answer, as Ruf Germany has the technical personel and the (financial) decision-making authority to achieve this. Historically, they had done 5 speeds when Porsche OEM was 4, and 6 speeds when Porsche was still 5.

It will not be cheap, but I think if someone can pull this off, it'll be Ruf in Germany.

just my 2 cents.

CP

Cupcar

Yes, it was RUF of Dallas, I figure if it were easily done though, RUF would have already done the conversion as I suspect it would be a popular product line for them. It would really be the key to a unique car wouldn't it?

GoSpeedGo

http://www.farnbacherloles.com/general/pdf/GTRflyer.pdf

stout

From what I've understood, the difficulty is indeed a size issue, or more accurately, a length issue due to the offset chain-tensioner setup of the "traditional" GT3 motor, which makes it slightly longer than the 986/996-on motors. That said, I've heard it's been done by moving the firewall foreward a bit (you'd better have short legs) and I've heard it's been done without moving the firewall.

Curious about the transmission "impossibility." In the 915 and 930 days, people who wanted to run those boxes in 914s flipped the ring and pinion, necessitating a trip to the machine shop but yielding a 915 or 930 transaxle in mid-engined configuration. Wonder how hard it would be to do the same with the GT3 transaxle, and if the geometry for the axles would work just as well as it did from 911 to 914. You'd get your LSD in the bargain, but I wonder if the lockup ratio would be right for a mid-engine 987...

Then install the whole front end of a GT3 up front (bolt-in), a PCCB brake setup (pick your rotors carefully), and you're left with figuring out/setting up the rear suspension.

So it seems like a packaging and rear-suspension issue, or a wait and see game of hoping for the best garage (in Weissach) to do it after a 987-platform change of heart on Porsche's part.

pete

smlporsche

This thread get's me excited!

Having driven a Boxster S on the track I am very impressed with it's handleing characteristics but always thought it needed more HP.

If Porsche goes to an 8 cylinder for the 998 GT3 then it would make perfect sense to use the dry sump 3.6 in a Cayman (I'm sure Weisach could work out the transmission details)

In keeping with the Porsche tradition they can call it the GT4 and everybody will be happy (especially ME)!

stout

Or bump the current GT3 nomenclature up to GT2 to reflect the car's place on the racetrack, move the GT2 to GT1 (to reflect where it should be on the racetrack) and let a Cayman slot into the void called GT3.

Here's to hoping...

(and hoping someone at PAG is watching is thread)

pete

Cupcar

Talking about engine transfers race to street.

When the 908 racing car was alive and kicking in the early 70's, and Dr. Ferdinand Piech (Ferndinand Porsche's grandson and now ex-ceo of VW/Audi) was running the Porsche racing department, there were two special 914/8's built using the racing 908 engine.

One 914/8 went to Dr. Piech and one went to Dr. Ferry Porsche. Piech's had the full race, fuel injected engine and Dr. Porsche got a detuned version with carburetors.

That was Porsche "then", Porsche "now" is Dr. Weideking's marketing/production/financial derivatives company where such things are destroyed on the spot.